“Shop To Earn” are a bunch of litigious bastards*
Posted by: Paul in Fightin' Words, Hang the LawyersYou are not allowed to sue someone just because you disagree with what they wrote about you online. Let me say that again – if someone says something factually negative about you online in a forum post, or a blog entry, suing them is not a rational course of action.
“But Mr. Quick-To-Anger Blogger, we knew that already. EVERYONE knows that!”
Not so fast there. Apparently, the fine bridge trolls** at Shop To Earn missed a memo.
Shop To Earn (google them – I won’t give them even the paltry traffic that my site might drive to them) is a MLM “company” who have decided that the best way to publicize their company is to sue anyone who says anything remotely unflattering about their pyramid marketing scheme. I know that’s a phrase that’s looked down upon by legitimate MLM companies (oxmoron, anyone?) but as someone far more eloquent than me put it:
People pay a fee to become a member of the scheme, hoping that they can recoup their money by recruiting more members who also pay fees to join the scheme. When you recruit a downline, the structure sure looks like a pyramid to me.
Basically, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it’s going to bilk you out of your hard-earned money.
These people should really look up the Streisand effect.
The way it works is this:
To become a “website owner” it’s $349, or to become just a “business builder” it’s $99. To become a “broker” which is a website owner and business builder, it’s $448. There is also an annual renewal fee that is charged, which is $69 for a website owner or business builder, or $119 for a broker.
So basically, you’re paying hundreds of dollars for the privilege of joining a link farm. That’s ALL it is.
Popular blog Everyday Finance took a look at the company, and posted their findings online, stating that the whole thing wasn’t his cup of tea for reasons he outlines in the linked post. Unfortunately, the legal department of Shop To Earn, Mr. Gerald Nehra, decided that the best, most reasonable course of action would be to demand that he take his entire site down.
Nice.
This is Patrick Welsh. He’s the guy who created this company, and it only took him 10 years! Way to go, Patrick! This alone should tell you all you need to know about this company.
If you look at their About Us page, you’ll notice our good friend Gerald Nehra on there. The fact that a company decides that it’s a good idea to list the founder, both presidents and their lawyer on their “Meet the Company” page speaks volumes.
Matter of fact, why don’t you contact these fine people and give them a piece of your mind? Here’s the pertinent info:
Shop To Earn
Phone: (800) 239-5813
Gerry Nehra
1710 Beach Street
Muskegon, MI 49441-1008
Phone: (231) 755-3800
Fax: (231) 755-4700
Email: gnehra@mlmatty.com
Patrick Welsh
Unfortunately, publicly available information on Mr. Welsh isn’t easy to come by. Maybe you could try asking Gerry for his information?
And in news that really doesn’t mean anything, but amuses me anyway: if you go to their site – shoptoearn.org – and look at the bottom, it says “Powered by Free Website Templates”. Yeah, I want to spend my money with a company that couldn’t be bothered to design an original website, or at least pick one that didn’t look like EVERY OTHER SITE OUT THERE.
Thanks go out to Techdirt, where I first read about this “company”.
July 26th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Hey Einstein, ShoptoEarn.org is a group of brokers that formed their own website. Has nothing to do with STE. Do your homework dumbass
July 27th, 2008 at 8:14 am
You are entirely nasty. As you stated, you don’t know anything about this company. I love when idiots like you go spouting. It does just the opposite of what your intention is. You’re playing “take away” with the masses, only to help the company’s exposure! Thanks!
Before you go “bashing” something, wouldn’t it be a touch smarter to find out what you’re bashing? You might look like you had something to bring to the table.
July 27th, 2008 at 10:28 am
scott:
Horseshit. From their About page (http://www.shoptoearn.org/about.html):
“www.ShopToEarn.org is a group of ShopToEarn.net brokers who are working together to better their business opportunity.”
There are also various links back from .org to .net. Tell me again how STE.org has nothing to do with STE.net?
July 27th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Wendy:
Go away, shill. Even if you didn’t put your STE “website” on your post, you’ve quite obviously drunk the Kool-Aid.
It’s a MLM scheme. I’ve checked the pages of the various reps and they are all identical except for the names, phone numbers, and a picture if the “rep” is REALLY ambitious. Same layout, same copy, everything. Yes Wendy, even yours. I just checked.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Dont you have anything better to do? Who really cares.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:01 pm
This reminds me of Burnlounge, the company that will change the music industry. Burnlounge got sued by the FTC! In my opinion, ShopToEarn, is a waste of time and money. You’re not really building a business with them, you’re just participating in a grand scheme to recruit as many new victims as possible. The amount of money you’ll save by shopping through these sites is questionable at best, and in many cases, I think you’ll actually lose money. Avoid these companies like the plague.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
I have Gerry Nehra’s cell phone number
231 740 5908
August 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
IVE BEEN IN BUSINESS MOST OF MY LIFE ITS BEEN 6 WEEKS SINCE IVE BECAME A BROKER WITH THIS COMPANY IVE MADE MY MONEY BACK AND THEN SOME THIS IS A FANTASTIC BUSINESS MODEL FOR THE IDIOTS OUT THERE WHO BAD MOUTH US I WILL SAY A PRAYER FOR YOU THAT SOMEDAY YOU’LL UNDERSTAND THAT WE DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK AND SAY AND ILL ASK FORGIVNESS FOR THE WAY WE MAKE JOKES AND LAUGH ABOUT ALL OF YOU POOR MISGUIDED INDIVIDUALS WHO DON’T GET IT SORRY I OFTEN WONDERED WHY THE GOVERNMENT STARTED ADULT EDUCATION PROGRAMS IN THIS COUNTRY NOW I UNDERSTAND
August 11th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Wow, Scott. Maybe you should take some of that “then some” money that you’ve made, and invest in a) a keyboard with a working CAPS lock key, and b) a grammar book to help educate you on the finer points of punctuation.
And…been in business most of your life? What a meaningless statement for someone to make. Everyone’s been in *some* kind of business most of their lives. Most people, however, learn not to type in all caps and use the occasional comma or period. But then again, if we didn’t have programs for “specially-abled” people such as yourself, what kind of society would we be?
August 11th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Scott needs to take an economics class if he thinks this is a legitimate business. Scott, ShopToEarn is just a variation on many other similar schemes in which the product is merely a pretext for buying a position on the pyramid. All the buyers are investors in the scheme. The main money that will be siphoned up the pyramid is the price paid up-front (start up fees) by each new investor to get a position. The money from the product is minimal and would require a massive downline to profit from. The up-front payments, the lack of retail sales, and requirement for recruiting are all hallmarks of the pyramid scam masquerading as a business. Once the FTC catches on to this scheme, there will be an investigation.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I just lsitened to one of ShopToEarn’s tour calls (introductory conference call) last night, and I’m still deciding if I want to do this. I was referred by a friend whom I really trust, so I’m trying to see the good side of this company. I’ve seen pyramid-esque scams before (Interior Design Nutritionals back in the 90’s) but this seems different. There is no ONE product to hawk. You basically get people who shop anyway, get them to shop the stores on ShopToEarn, and then get them to tell other people to shop. I understand the “if it looks like a duck” concern, but this might just be legit.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
I was wondering for the ney-sayers how much they paid in taxes since they started paying income taxes(?) This has been your INVESTMENT in the BIGGEST Pyramid Scheme in history! Along with the US Military and Education. And before you vote, go tell the government you’re being scammed, and don’t waste time time badgering those that create their own destinies and do A LOT of good along the way. With all due respect to those entering the Corporate World in America…Welcome to doing business the PYRAMID way!
August 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Before you start commenting on things you might want to make sure you have the CORRECT WEBITE!!!!
I would like to make it clear that your comments below are not ShoptoEarn’s website. You in fact are referring to shoptoearn.org…got it… .ORG not .NET. Shop to Earn.NET is the company’s page.
THis is your statement ‘ And in news that really doesn’t mean anything, but amuses me anyway: if you go to their site – shoptoearn.org – and look at the bottom, it says “Powered by Free Website Templates”. Yeah, I want to spend my money with a company that couldn’t be bothered to design an original website, or at least pick one that didn’t look like EVERY OTHER SITE OUT THERE.’
Nothing more to say…
August 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Wow:
You absolute shilling twat. I’m referring to both .NET and .ORG. Both are equally worthless. .NET is the company that sucks, and .ORG is the site for the moronic brokers that either got suckered in late in the game, or bought in at the beginning in order to reap the benefits of what the latecomers do. So .ORG is populated by both the gullible, and scumbags.
Tell me again how the .NET and the .ORG site are different?
Oh, and I don’t understand your final comment. You repeat something I said, and then you state “Nothing more to say…” which is sorta retarded, because I already said it. That means you really DO have something more to say about it, which makes you a liar.
So go on and enlighten me Liar McLiarface.
August 28th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Hey Paul I can just imagine what you do for a living. Your just pissed that everyone is making money but you. What a ass!!! If shoptoearn is a scam, then I hope to get scammed for the rest of my life, because I have already made 230,000.00 in 5 months scam my ass.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Hey there Brenda, thanks for the ad hominem attack. If you wanted to know what I do for a living, all you had to do was ask. I work as a senior information management specialist for a very large company, making enough money to have a house in the the frozen north as well as sunny Florida, two paid off cars, and living quite comfortably.
I feel good telling you this, because maybe if you see that someone can be honest and open about what they do, and not spread inane lies on random blogs, maybe you’ll feel better about yourself and what you do. Unfortunately, what you do isn’t “make 230,000 in 5 months” with STE, so I don’t know what the truth actually is.
You know what though? That’s not fair. Go ahead and email me some copies of your bank statement or your paystubs – personally identifiable information redacted, of course – and I’ll post it here, and apologize publicly.
Ball’s in your court, Brenda. Are you a shrewd businesswoman, with enough business acumen to make more than many senior executives make in a full year, or a filthy, lying shill?
August 29th, 2008 at 11:30 am
PAUL I THINK YOU ARE JUST A NEGITIVE PERSON WHO HAS TO FIND SOMTHING WRONG WITH A COMPANY WHO STANDS BEHIND WHAT THEY SAY, I ALSO HAVE MADE GOOD MONEY DEPOSITED INTO MY ACCOUNT, SO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR PIEHOLE AZHOLE, AND WHO REALLY CARES WHAT KIND OF MONEY YOU MAKE, WE ARE MAKING EVEN MORE WITH SHOP TO EARN!!
August 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Is Shop to Earn a Scam?
Is Weight Watchers a scam? If so, then STE is surely a scam too!
I know Weight Watchers has meetings and they even have a “point system” and the point system can get very confusing. Is Nutrisystem a scam with Marie Osmond and Dan Marino as spokespeople? Did Dr. Atkins make millions of dollars scamming people with his low-carb book? What about the South Beach Diet book-selling scam? Maybe Dr. Oz and Oprah are also in on a book-selling scam too!
All this non-sense about eating fiber, curtailing calories, buying their prepared foods and exercising more to lose weight – if 90% of the people fail then its obviously a scam !!!!
A SCAM that doesnt work!!! The only people who benefit are the publishing companies and the prepared frozen dinner makers. I know people who tried these types of diets multiple times, for years and years and never lost weight. So obviously it must be a scam and therefore I’m not even going to try it! Weight Watchers sounds too good to be true – so RUN! Dont tell your friends about these diet programs because when they fail they will hate YOU!
We all know for a FACT that millions upon millions of people were promised a healthier life, a better love life, popularity, longevity so they tried all these various diet programs and never lost much weight or gained it all back eventually. Probably the same 90% number that the ever-self-promoting Ms. Tracy Coenen keeps mentioning with MLM’s. Yet every once in a while we meet people that lost 30, 40, 80+ pounds and have some diet program to thank. These programs have truly changed their lives forever.
Is it fair for someone to blog that these various diet programs are all scams because they tried them many times and never got results? I don’t understand why people bash a program because they quit or failed or even more funny is that they never even tried! Truth is all these programs work just fine, if you follow them and stick with it.
I think if someone fails at STE or any MLM or any “legit” mainstream job, the blame falls on the individual who chooses to NOT give it a serious try.
Losing weight is hard to do for some people, just like making money is hard to do for some people. BUT, I think that most intelligent people know that by cutting some calories, exercising and staying focused most people will lose weight – however its a statistical fact that most will fail. So we must yell Scam? I think not. It’s just human nature that most people will fail at difficult tasks and we all know misery loves company and that is the basis for these negative forums.
I’m sorry to report that I have made close to $40,000 in less than 3 months with Shop to Earn. My “downline” now has close to 600 people in it, with scores of people that made 10x their investment. These are smart, already succesful people that know a good thing when they see it and have the conviction to succeed at almost anything they tackle – if they fail, they blame themselves and no one else – some people refer to these people as WINNERS. All of my friends and contacts are made fully aware that nothing is easy and you have to give it a serious try. I haven’t seen any buyer’s remorse. It’s a business opportunity that has the potential for great results. If you bought a McDonald’s franchise and never showed up you would fail too – and it wouldn’t be anyone’s fault but your own.
If someone lets some negative blogg readings keep them from signing up with STE thats a good thing for STE long-term. Better to weed out these naysayers before they sign up. They would have no real chance to succeed. So good for them – keep your $448.00 and God bless you!
P.S. I think I know which Brenda this is – don’t mess with her! she’s going to make six-figures this August alone! and never less than that ever again. Brenda, if you can somehow block out your personal account # then show him your statement girl! Maybe have the bank write a letter?
August 31st, 2008 at 9:25 am
Please don’t fall for this scam. I did and have now wasted plenty of time trying to obtain a refund. Ultimately I have now had to chargeback the item on my credit card.
For starters…there is NO contact number for the company ANYWHERE on their website. Once I asked for a refund my account was closed so I can’t even log in to read the support tickets to see if they have any intention of refunding me.
Most everyone I have talked to claims to have made a few thousand..in theory, meaning the magical check that shows up on their website. However, few if any have actually received that money. Some were told it would take an extra month, others were told the computer made a mistake on the routing numbers, all lies.
I called the office of the Attorney for STE..here is the contact info for him:
Gerry Nehra
1710 Beach Street
Muskegon, MI 49441-1008
Phone: (231) 755-3800
Fax: (231) 755-4700
Cell: (231) 740 5908
Email: gnehra@mlmatty.com
His secretary and I spoke at great length. It seems he is getting refund calls there, people are complaining about not being able to get a contact number. She advised me that ‘Gerry’ has told them on numerous occasions that they need to put a contact number on the site yet they refuse. (for obvious reasons)
STE is very ‘cult’ like with it’s members going above and beyond to sell the idea. They are selling you an affiliate program you could get on your own for free from performics.com and others like it. The national brands listed have no affiliation with STE and the accounts are more than likely rotated continuously to keep under the wire.
I feel sorry for anyone who signs up thinking they will make fast cash…even worse for those who con their friends and family members into spending their few spare dollars on a blatant pyramid scheme to enrich themselves temporarily. I say this because a friend came to me and was so excited about finally finding a ‘way out’ of his financial rut. I tried to tell him not to do it, but he did and now is wishing he hadn’t. He can’t get thru to anyone and had to also do a chargeback, blah, blah, blah. You know the story. The guy that recruited him is now treating him like a lepor for cancelling. Some friend!! It’s all about keeping those two legs even!!! What a joke, they make it virtually impossible but if you cancel under someone their whole thing comes crashing down on them.
The botom line is there are two types of people who sign up for this…A) the guy/gal who doesn’t care how many people they ‘CON’ as long as it makes them some fast cash and B) The innocent ‘believer’ who sees a way out of their financial rut but doesn’t really understand how pyramid schemes work. The first had a few dollars laying around, maybe from another scheme so they aren’t really hurting if it doesn’t work, the latter really can’t afford it but falls for the ‘hype’ in hope of a ‘better’ way.
By the way…don’t worry about politely declining your friend or family member’s offer. They will treat you poorly at first, then a few months later they will come around stating..you were right.
August 31st, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I’ve personally met Brenda and follow her site threw documentation on ste overview web site link.Brenda i think this ass is questioning himself, please show PAUL the information specialist in a very large company with two houses and two paid cars what its all about. Capital letters, and punctuations, I’ve got some grammar for you. Guys like you are a penny a dozen,all you do is turn away people close to you I BET YOUR A LONELY seems the name says man ? Brenda no need to be upset with this moron show him the money and let him do and say what he wants we have the truth and the lifestyle, this guy needs a house in Guam and a bike.
August 31st, 2008 at 3:36 pm
some people will never get it . do whats right you half to dismiss people like PAUL the info spec. no just forgive him he does not know any better he’s probably a counter spec. at some fast food joint on the joke
September 1st, 2008 at 1:55 am
Holy shit! I never knew there were people this dumb! Scott you might be the stupidest person I’ve ever known. Dude, your spelling and grammar are worse than my 1st grader’s. And that goes to show us why you believe STE is legitimate. Holy crap, this country is filled with retards. Scott, Brenda, please, please, DO NOT procreate.
September 1st, 2008 at 5:20 pm
don’t believe any cons up there its all false its just one person with ALOT and i mean ALOT of short comings do what you feel is right ste is genuine. The stories you reed up their are not real though the names were changed to protect the very stupid and uninformed and to the moron talking about spelling WELL
September 1st, 2008 at 6:23 pm
GIVEMEABREAK is actually SVENTO, and even he says that all the stories up above about STE are fake, and the people who told them are stupid.
Personally, he seems to be a textbook closet-case self-loather. Get help and be well again SVENTO.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:23 pm
While I do appreciate my supporters in Shop To Earn, please note that the comment supposedly made by me on Aug. 28, 2008 at 10:44 PM was NOT made by me at all. I am assuming that it came from a broker in Shop To Earn and done on my behalf. I do not enter blogs on the internet and this statement NOT made by me was brought to my attention by a friend who happened upon this site. I would never represent a company on a blog and with strong language as in this statement. I do not call people names, especially in a public forum. It is unprofessional and I would not represent a company in this unprofessional manner. Under NO circumstances will I allow other people to “act” on my behalf, pretend to be me, and make any statements that appear to come from me. Any statements on any blog re: any subject other than interior design do NOT come from me.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Well Brenda, I would be a LOT more inclined to believe you if both of the comments attributed to “Brenda” didn’t come from the exact same IP address: 64.12.117.204.
Seems to me that you’re just trying to back out of proving your claims?
September 1st, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Hmmm… I think Brenda is obviously bi-polar or schizophrenic. Maybe both (oh, wouldn’t that make for a fun dinner guest!). What’s amazing in her “apology post” is that she doesn’t raise the slightest hint of concern that a company she is affiliated with would impersonate her identity for their own self-serving ends. That would get me worried about any “company”. It’s also laughable that she claims she doesn’t enter blogs on the internet, but yet here she is… and more importantly, she admits to posting about interior design on other blogs. How charmingly ridiculous.
To joeO & other STE zealots: To elaborate on your parable… Weight Watchers is not a scam in that they sell a legitimate product and service. (No, I’ve never been a member, but I am familiar with their setup.) You absolutely hit the nail on the head when you said that when people fail at those services, it is due to their own lack of self-discipline. But you miss the big picture here: WW doesn’t require people to recruit members or host parties to participate in their program, and you can get what you pay for (ie. better health and less fat) by following their program and not engaging in recruitment. Do they encourage recruitment? Sure–every good company wants its customers to serve as testimonials in the hopes of bringing more business. The only difference is WW will actively compensate its members for doing so. And as such, they can be classified as MLM, just like Avon or Mary Kay or Pampered Chef–all of whom sell tangible products which provide real customers with tangible results.
Now, take a company like STE. If all you did was sign up and start your own web site, and never recruit a single person, ever, will you “get what you pay for”? Probably not. That’s the classic definition of a bad MLM idea. All you have is an “idea”–or an intangible “product”–in your hand, that requires you to float this same bad idea to other people (read: suckers) to sign up for. The more people who join your downline, the more you earn. But the difference here is that your results are directly tied to how many people you recruit. You didn’t join a website business or a retail business–you joined up with a staffing agency.
Congratulations, your job is to recruit people! You have all the skills of the $7/hour Ranstad employee.
It takes absolutely no business acumen, high intelligence (as we’ve seen demonstrated by STE defenders thus far), or large infusion of capital to get other people to invest in a bad idea. It just takes a clever spin and a gullible mark. For someone to say they have “600 people in their downline” just tells me they know (directly or by proxy) 600 incompetent people. Well, you might have a six-figure income, but you made it by selling a lie and took advantage of 600 poor souls whose money could have been better spent on other things. Because the absolute truth is that in setups like STE, the only people who make money are the people close to the top. Everyone else will quit or get bilked along the way–usually people who are desperate for cash and could have invested their $448 into something like a mortgage or an electric bill or (gasp!) mutual fund. It’s a statistical fact that the larger portion of participants in ventures like this will regret their involvement a year from now. That’s why Weight Watchers is a company, and STE is a scheme.
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:43 am
Martin:
Spending billions on advertising and writing books and selling people on a dream to health and happiness is the ultimate recruitment! We have no choice but watch these commercials and see all the products and thin models.
My point is that 90% of the fail.
The biggest problem with MLM objectors is Fear – fear of success.
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Hi There All………..Shop to Earn is the best…………..we jonied on Saturday its now Wednesday and have already made $800………..this thing is so sick……….get your head around it and join up, u wont be sorry…………
And the comment about only taking 10 years to start it up, “UM Hello?” I am glad it took him that long, worked out all the glitches, and not many people were shopping on line 10 yeaers ago………dah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 4th, 2008 at 12:16 am
You can make money doing almost anything in life, if you just set your mind to it. For instance, people make good money having sex with donkeys. I once met a girl named Maria who used to bring home $2500 a night doing this. With MLM you need to sell, sell, sell, all the time. You need to recruit, recruit your family, your friends, everyone you meet. Pretty soon every one you talk to, you will have a hidden agenda, waiting for the perfect segway to introduce “your amazing product”. You will become a robotic slob of the earth because you have no other means to make a living, the fact is you have no idea what the f*!k your selling. But that shouldn’t matter as long as you’re making money at it. So I say to you, go F*!k a donkey, the money is great. Either way, your friends and family will have no repect for you.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Hello all, I was looking at this blog and i find it QUITE entertaining. Paul you are such a dam smart ass and i love it! But how exactly did you retrase (i know i cant spell) and find the I.P. address back successfully (I’ve just always wanted to know how…)? My 34 year old father was referred to STE by a truly close friend. When I told him the logistics, he quickly reiterated himself with a facetious tone of voice:he thinks STE’s connive. He is not going to try to spend any more money than he has to, to make it through tough times.
And I myself, have to rethink my companies that I have shares in.
dtmg sucks right now…lol (has 2 get back up to 5cents! *chuckles*…..dam that was a bad move, anyway…)
i know we have some English professors here … XD … so i will admit i may have some grammatical errors-at least I’m not a grown adult “smart entrepreneur” cough cough** … XD … that has “graduated” from Americas pathetic high school system!
(and yes i do go to a preppy uptight school on The Island in Tampa Bay, FL.)
Go Washington Redskins! (it sucks that they lost though)
September 4th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
(5th line)
sorry what i meant to say was “: he think STE’s connive is the stupidest thing the average American idiot has fallen for in his life…an MLM is such bullshit.”
Yes I know: I nodded my head with agreement too 1st time I heard it.
September 4th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Hey Dan, thanks for commenting. Glad your father wasn’t sucked in like his close friend was.
Regarding your tracing question, I can’t really claim credit for it. WordPress (the blogging system I use) tracks the IPs of everyone that comments. And Because theRe arE maNy Dishonest liArs commenting on blogs nowadays, they even added a feature that will tell you who commented from which IP. Makes it almost too easy.
Almost.
September 4th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Oh, and which school? I graduated from HHS in….well, let’s just say it’s been a while. =)
September 4th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Oh, WordPress sounds like a really cool program I will check it out. …
… that first clause in your 3rd sentence truly is one of a kind.
I would rather not discuss any information that goes beyond city and state in detail.
Your welcome for commenting,
But the thanks goes to you for bringing up the topic and allowing the truth to be set free. I’ll be on my way. I can see you are a very smart guy and extremely skilled at arguing there point. Happy blogging.
September 4th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
*arguing YOUR point (9th line)
September 9th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Paul, I thought you would find this interesting and HILARIOUS.
Scott Vento,
Let’s review your so called made money. Your initial start up fee ($450), PLUS a STE Seminar ($129). Your fake check, that you probably won’t get paid, shows on line that you got $559. Your total that you’ve paid into this scam is $579. That’s a total of minus $29 and 7 recruits that you suckered. Most of those recruits appear to be family so I’m sure those family dinners must be interesting. You’ve been a member since June 24th and your minus $29. EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE AGAIN HOW THIS IS A GREAT BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY. THOSE CAPITALS ARE JUST FOR YOU SCOTTY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please let me know what your next investment is so I can warn your poor family. I would expect more from a Pennsylvanian. Must be an Eagles fan.
To all you STE juice drinkers, where are the people, Brenda, when they’re asked to provide some sort of proof of deposit for all the money they’ve made???? Everyone gets real quiet and starts to attempt to disprove other companies.
When a criminal is not guilty their attorneys will attempt to prove why they’re not guilty and present evidence to show their case. When a criminal is guilty, they’ll attack the police officers and their credibility. I.E. OJ Simpson. My point is, if STE is so great and people ar making great money, PAUL has stated that he would post your proof and apologize publicly. That was over 10 days ago Paul, has anyone taken you up on that offer/challenge?
Thanks for starting a great blog that will hopefully educate some on how not to get scammed!
September 9th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
THIS IS NOT THE SHOP TO EARN CORPORATE OFFICE PHONE NUMBER!!! PLEASE REMOVE IT FROM THIS BLOG!!!
September 9th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
My apologies, Whitey. Here, allow me to correct the oversight:
EVERYONE! Do *not* use 800.239.5813 as the number for the corporate offices of ShopToEarn! I repeat – 800.239.5813 is NOT the right number for ShopToEarn’s corporate office!
It is, however, the number of http://www.shopsaveearn.net/, which is where you’re told to go whenever you visit http://www.shoptoearn.org/. So, to reiterate – 800.239.5813 is NOT the correct corporate number for ShopToEarn, but it *is* the right number for ShopSaveEarn, the website/company that ShopToEarn has moved to! Do NOT confuse the two and call 800.239.5813 intending to get ShopToEarn! You will look foolish! 800.239.5813 is to be used ONLY for contacting the fine folks at ShopSaveEarn!
Also, I’m glad to see that STE.org is finally coming clean about its relationship with STE.net. I mean, it was really difficult to determine without their public admission. So happy that’s over.
On another note, the fact that ShopToEarn has changed to ShopSaveEarn – much like many, many shady businesses do – shouldn’t be misconstrued as anything nefarious or evil. ShopSaveEarn/ShopToEarn is as legitimate as ANY other MLM scheme out there.
Good enough, Whitey?
September 10th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Seems there are some ignorant people here. STE is very legit and government registered. I am a member. For those that think it is a scam, answer this question. Why do you think all the retailers listed partnered with STE? Yea I know, you can’t answer. It is good advertisement for them and very convenient to go to a website and be able to pull up most stores you shop at. Yes you do earn money off shoppers and every time you sign a person up. This is not a pyramid as they are illegal in the US. So answer another question. Why is it still on the web? Your ignorance can’t answer the question. Per Brenda, I have seen what she has made through today. She has done exceptionally well and many others. Per the refund, you ahve 15 days to go in your back office and request it and get out. Angry people like most of you need to get a life and realize that everything isn’t a scam you see. If you think it is, then quit worrying about it and keep your mouth shut. I’m very sorry you didn’t have the brains to come up with the idea yourself. When I get older and can’t work, I know I’ll have a paycheck on the 21st of every month. For those that can’t find the phone number, it is there on the site. Maybe you are blind. If you joined you would also know supports e-mail addy for unsolved issues. This is all about People helping people but i see there are many that just can’t be helped.
September 10th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Straight from this website (http://www.vegasbbb.org/rptrel.asp?bbbid=77457):
Licensing
As of 8/6/2008, the Bureau has been UNABLE to confirm this company has a valid local business license for the locale in which they operate. IF A CONSUMER DOES BUSINESS WITH AN UNLICENSED FIRM, THEY DO SO AT THEIR OWN RISK.
They also list a false number on that same site.
Stop trying to prop this thing up. And…have a paycheck when you’re old and can’t work? Don’t make me laugh. You’ll be lucky if this “business” is around in a few years.
Oh, and Brenda? I still haven’t gotten that email.
September 11th, 2008 at 11:18 am
You are very ignorant and anyone else that listens to you is the same. I believe this blog is here to only stir up crap from a very jealous and ignorant individual. You obviously are very uneducated. Just because you don’t have the brains to join and start a business for yourself doesn’t give you the right to discourage others. The world is full of people like you. Most are in the Middle East. Why don’t you get a life! STE doesn’t need liars like you!
September 12th, 2008 at 12:42 am
I was on one of the webinars for STE last night and I must say that this business model appears to be VERY, VERY difficult to make money. I want to make some key points about STE that stood out to me.
1. STE is not consumer friendly AT ALL. What I mean by that is, as a customer, I would never want to shop there. Why do you ask?? If you look at the top shopping sites on the web, most of them offer consumer reviews, which is something I always use “they do not offer this”, they don’t have comparative shopping, meaning when you for example go to Amazon and you type in the name of the product your looking to buy, multiple choices of where you can buy it from will come up with the prices listed so you can find the product for the lowest price. They do not have a product search bar, only a store search. So if you were looking for a Garmin Nuvi GPS system for example you would have to click on electronics, all their electronics stores would pop up, you would then have to click on each store to see if they carry the product and compare the prices on your own??? Who would want to waste all that time??? So it appears to me, in my opinion, that these sites are geared for the people in STE to buy from because they have an incentive, but someone not in the program “maybe a friend you want to shop from you” would not want to shop at the site because it is not user friendly.
2. If you look at how the pay structure works, the bulk of the money comes from recruiting, not from distribution of products. If you look at the % of points you acquire from shopping from them, it would take a very, very long time to get a check. But when you recruit someone in you get 200 points, hmmmm very little points for shopping and much higher points for recruiting. I too am in the network marketing industry and have become very successful in this field, but the bulk of my money comes from the movement of product, not from recruiting.
When I broke down what it would take to make a substantial on-going residual income based on the purchasing of product only not the recruiting income, I was surprised at how much spending from the group/down line it would take to make even a little bit of money. As with most new companies STE is most likely going through a learning curve and who knows, maybe they will improve on what they are doing, but for me its not the right business model.
September 12th, 2008 at 12:49 am
I do want to say, if it works for you then GREAT! Just want to keep it on a positive note.
September 12th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
COMMON SENSE:
PROFIT AND LOSS, FINANCIAL STATEMENTS???????
IT’S LIKE BUYING A PIECE OF PROPERTY WITHOUT A APPRAISAL?? Hello WAKE UP
AND THE “”"”"POINTS”"”"” THAT TURN INTO $$$$$$, OH HELP ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE JOINED, AND A ANNUAL FEE, AND HOW MUCH DO YOU NEED TO SPEND A MONTH OF YOUR OWN MONEYS??? HELLO: PAUL “”KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK”"
BRENDA IS CLEARLY RUNNING AND HIDING, AND HOW UNPROFESSIONAL OF HER TO USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE???? AND SHE IS A PART OF THIS COMPANY– REPRESENTING THIS COMPANY (Oh, I would fire her yesterday)
September 12th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Joined Aug 5, check to date is $5,019, 11 referrals. My upline, joined June 10, check to date is $7,500 AND HE’S BEEN PAID!!! The only reason somebody doesn’t get paid is because they’ve put the wrong banking information in their personal settings. You all need to get a life. As billionaire J. Paul Getty says “I would rather earn 1% of the efforts of 100 people than 100% of my own”
September 13th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Ok, please don’t take this the wrong way, but to all of you who are saying that the system works that that you’ve been paid enormous sums of gold bullion or Guatemalan children or whatever:
PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
I have already stated that if you email me a copy of your statement (sensitive info redacted, of course), I will post it here, and issue an apology to that person. Except for CB. He/she/it needs to provide proof that he started 39 days ago (as of today) and has managed to bring in $5,019 dollars with 11 referrals.
Oh, and Paul Getty was a drug addicted college dropout who was born into money and renounced his American citezinship. Oh, but the money didn’t come from his father – he wrote Paul out of his will. He got all his money from a family trust. Of _course_ he’d prefer to have “1% of the efforts of 100 people than 100% of [his] own” because aside from a brief stint in the army, he’s never had to work a day in his life. Not the best person to use to prove your “point”.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:01 am
What this company is doing is rather smart, because they are paying people $100.00 when you get someone to sign up. So these people are seeing immediate $$$$ from recruiting, NOT from product distribution. So this excites the new guy, but the thing is, your gonna have to recruit your ass off to make consistent money because if you look at the percentages that they are giving for points on purchases, it will take a LONG time to see a check for shopping. So the shopping online from yourself is just a way to get people in because the shopping part of the business, in my opinion is sooooooooooooo none consumer friendly, see my post above to see what I mean. So as the business is presented to a potential distributor, they make it seem that it’s all about shopping from yourself, it’s NOT, it’s about recruiting. I have many, many years in this industry and have been with my company for over 10 years now, so I’m pretty savvy when it comes to compensation plans, because I have seen my fair share of them. In my opinion, the money maid in the beginning may be decent for someone that recruits like CRAZY, but if the recruiting stops, the checks will soon stop as well.
Paul, has anyone sent you a check yet to prove these income claims? Based on the compensation plan, the income that these people are telling that they made does not add up!
September 13th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Read this:
CASE HISTORY NEW (BURN LOUNGE) TO OLDER CASES
The U.S. FTC has been moving steadily toward measuring the amount of Sales to Distributors compared to the dollar amount generated by sales to end consumers (Customers that do not belong to the pay plan). If there aren’t enough Customers, the MLM Company is considered a Pyramid Scheme. Regulators have found that pure pyramid schemes don’t have any end consumer customers. The definition of a Customer is a person that only buys product or services and doesn’t belong to the compensation plan and has no expectation of making money. The FTC Consumer Affairs people said in public speeches (not written rules) that MLM – Network Marketing Companies need to have a minimum of 50% Customers (that do not belong to the pay plan) to prove they are not a pyramid scheme. They have also said (not in writing) that 3 years would be a fair time for a new company.
This pretty much says it all!
September 13th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Im telling ya, be careful!
The Latest 9 June 2007. The FTC filed a TRO (Temporary Restraining Order)! The FTC said that Burn Lounge paid $50 for recruiting two new MLM Distributors, while paying only 50 cents per 2 albums sold, per the FTC complaint. Ouch! Can you spell Pyramid by FTC standards? The money in Burn Lounge was coming from recruiting…. Not the 50% of income from Customers/Product Sales the FTC wants. I bet Burn Lounge execs and the Investors that committed $40 million had studied the history of the FTC and Customer Requirements that you are reading now! By the way, Burn Lounge killed it’s MLM Program by converting to a one level affiliate program quickly and the FTC settled the case. Their stock is dead and the $40 million of investment money is down the drain. As an honest hard working top Compensation Plan Consultant I could have fixed this for a few thousand dollars! Sad to waste $40 million! Read On Below!
September 16th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Show your proof Somebody. Prove all the “negative” people wrong. Post your checks and proof. Nobody has put up the proof because their full of $%^&.
I think anybody that can do a little background check on the President, Patrick Welsh should. I would like to know what he was up to for the “ten years” it took him to develop this crap site. I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t be his first go round with a company like this.
September 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Negative blogs can help!!! I do like this blog site because you seem to post everything and so we all see both sides, as long as there is no foul language etc. There’s another blog site, run by some woman named Tracy that never posts any positive blogs. I have sent her a few blogs correcting the misconceptions about STE commissions and making some valid points. She never posts them. She would rather have wrong info out there and not even allow it to be corrected. I got frustrated one day and called her a “low-life”, she printed that of course. BUT some good came out of it !
I sent this post to her the other day and I KNOW SHE WILL NEVER POST IT. It would be great fun for some people to see it here. Please read on!
Hi Tracy!
I never thought I would be sending you this email, but I just want to say THANK YOU AND HUGS AND KISSES TOO!
I got a call this morning from a Title Agency owner in Long Island who had some success with her skin care MLM. She had heard about STE and how its basically the ‘MLM concept perfected’. So she googled it, she found your blog and my name and gave me a call. Calling you a “low-life” sure worked for me since it prompted you to print my name and company.
She said she knows better than to believe all this negative and angry propaganda from all the losers that fail at most every thing they try.
Anyway, she signed up and will be signing up her entire downline within the next week or so. She will surely make her fast-start $4,100 bonus and could be yet another six-figure-a-month Shop to Earn success story.
I doubt you will ever post this email, but I just felt compelled to thank you!
Regards,
Joe
It would be great if you posted this!
P.S. I have made over $40,000 in 3.5 months with Shop to Earn and have helped dozens of people see a 10x return on their money. Nothing in life is easy and nothing is perfect, but Shop to Earn is great fun and can be extremely lucrative if you stick to the plan. After 6 months there are many people with 10’s of thousands of others in their downline. ( as of today I have almost 700 after signing up about 22 directly) The residuals on shopping are getting to be substantial. Its not all about recruiting. Trust me, I’ve done my research ad nauseum. I’ve flown to Florida and had lunch with Pat Welsh and the team more than once before I got involved 100%. The search engine is coming, more stores are coming, this thing is just getting started my firends. They went from 4,000 to 35,000 members in the 3.5 months since I’ve joined. they will be over 100,000 by X-mas. With all the negative MLM stuuff out there, why are so many people willing to give this a try?
This can be life-changing if you work it. Best of all, there is no buyer’s remorse. If you buy a website and don’t refer others and don’t take them up on the business growth opportunity that’s your choice. At least you get to shop at Home Depot, The Gap, Staples, and 500+ other stores and get cash back. That isn’t so bad. Its better than having a garage full of “proprietary stuff” that no one wants. Cheers!
September 18th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Attn: Paul & All Others who are Mortified They Can’t Communicate in a Positive Manner to Make a Living Networking!
Why don’t you return to a website (which you seem to be on all the time) and do some serious investigation for a change (especially before you look like an idiot slamming CB for not possibly being able to make $5,015 in 39 days with only 11 referrals). Your uneducated comment just proves to all reading this blog that you are not someone who took a serious look at this business, therefore, your opinions are worth – well – nothing!! Your basing your opinions on something else you have experienced in the past.
Go to one of the sites and click on the photo in the lower left hand corner;
Then click on “overview” in the upper right;
Then click on “see how it works” and refer to slides 12 and 13;
This is how CB and countless others make $4,000 – $5,000 in one month AND sometimes with only 10 referrals, not 11. Reason why people aren’t posting their checks is because most of them are direct deposit (I know mine is). I certainly will not post my bank statement to you or anyone else. Just keep on missing the boat as it is more for everyone else.
Buh-Bye
September 19th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Shop To Earn – Is It an Illegal Pyramid?
Opinion from an Insider and FTC Rulings
Mia culpa for joining ShopTo Earn/ShopToEarth (STE) prior to doing my homework. It is so easy to get swept up in the fever of earning quick money during a home presentation where an early investor shows his paycheck. Sounds like inducement which has been deemed illegal by the FTC. However, now that I joined as a broker for $448, I would like to share some details of my direct experience which in my opinion classifies STE as a pyramid. In addition, I have included some rulings by the FTC on similar “mall” shopping companies which were forced to shut down and two FTC articles on warning signs of an illegal pyramid scheme.
First of all here is some background on the STE’s design and structure. You may join STE as a Business Builder ($99) and you are only paid for recruiting others. However, to receive your commission, you or your friends “must generate at least $100 in monthly business volume through his/her website’s link to ShopToEarth to become qualified to SCORE!” (taken directly from the company’s commission rules; link to this document is shown below under Related Documents). The commission rules also state that a Business Builder must refer (recruit) three new Website Owners or Brokers within the first 30 days. These recruits must pay their renewal fees at the end of one year or the Business Builder must refer (recruit) another Website Owner/Broker to continue to be eligible for commission.
Or, you may join as a Web site Owner ($349) which allows you to shop with 500 retailers and earn cash back with a $69 annual renewal fee. You also earn points for anyone who shops at your Web site. However, to receive your commission through STE you or your friends “must generate at least $100 in monthly business volume through his/her website’s link to ShopToEarth to become qualified to SCORE!”
Doesn’t it sound great to earn cash back for shopping online? Slow down. Did you know that you can do the very same thing through many sites on the internet, earn cash back at MORE retailers and get paid to refer friends all for FREE? Some of these sites are cashbaq.com, ebates.com, mrrebates.com. For example, cashbaq.com has over 1700 retailers available and they show available online coupons per store which may be used for additional discounts. This is known as affiliate marketing where retailers pay for affiliates to promote their goods to a consumer with a direct link to the retailer’s online site. The affiliate receives a rebate from the retailer and is sharing a portion of the rebate with the consumer. So, why would you, your loved ones or friends spend the $349 when you can do the same thing for free? In addition to collecting your $349, STE is receiving the rebate from the retailer as an affiliate and only sharing a portion with the member.
Then there is the Business Builder and Website Owner rolled into one position known as a Broker. The cost to become a Broker is $448 with an annual renewal fee of $119. From STE Commission Rules – “A Broker functions under the same Commission Rules as a Website Owner and a Business Builder; however, a Broker (Website Owner + Business Builder) only has to refer 2 Website Owners and place at least one on the Left Side and at least one on the Right Side to become qualified to SCORE! A Broker has an annual renewal fee of $119 and 50 points are paid to that Broker (Website Owner + Business Builder) and up-line to all Business Builders.” Again, to receive your commission through STE, you or your friends “must generate at least $100 in monthly business volume through his/her website’s link to ShopToEarth to become qualified to SCORE!”
As for the requirement to purchase $100 in ShopToEarth products monthly, I have looked through the green products available and I cannot come up with $100 that I need every month. I also feel that most of the prices on these green products are inflated and this requirement only serves to put more “green” into the pockets of the top levels. Yes, STE is truly a “green” company.
So if you found $100 from the ShopToEarth site to purchase and now you are ready to receive your commission. But wait, there’s more. Your are not eligible to receive your commission unless your right and left side are balance. Now the complexity comes into the genealogy of the tree you are creating on your right and left side. Remember, as a Broker, you must recruit one person on your right and one on your left which begins your tree. To earn your commission, at least 1/3 of your total points must come from one side. Why is this put into place? It forces you to continually recruit new members on your weaker side. New recruits mean more money. Think about it though. Everyone is trying to balance their sides. So if I have a strong right side but someone below me on that side is weak, they will continually try to recruit more on my strong side. I don’t want this. It will make my strong side even stronger! Yikes. Why was this put in place? The company ensures solvency through your continual balancing act of recruiting new members and not paying commission to existing members who are out of balance.
Here are some other issues that I have with STE:
1.STE readily promotes checks on the STE Tour call, at home presentations, seminars and on individual Web sites. You can go to any member’s Web site, click on their picture in the lower left corner and then click on $ My Check to see the member’s check. In my opinion, this is inducement and is illegal according to the FTC.
2.In order to not classify as a pyramid, FTC states that 50% of the business must come from customers not being paid commissions. STE owns the ShopToEarth products so this means that 50% of the business in ShopTo Earth must come from those purchasing products yet not receiving any commissions. Good luck with that one STE especially since as of September 2008 you now require all members to purchase $100 in products from ShopToEarth to receive commission.
3.STE is promoting business as if they have teamed up with Home Depot, Target, Staples, etc… This is misleading. STE is merely an affiliate and they offer a link to major retailers. In my opinion, this is deceptive and an attempt to legitimize the company.
4.To be a legitimate company, refunds must be made to consumers. STE promises to refund your money if you put in a ticket within the first 14 days. There are several blogs about people not being able to get their refund as promised, which leads to the next issue.
5.No STE telephone number available anywhere on the Web site.
6.Bullying tactics of STE attorney (Nehra) with cease and desist communication to bloggers on the internet who are questioning the legality of STE. Why this tactic? Does STE have something to hide and what about our right to freedom of speech?
What does the company say about itself? Under About Us on the STE Web site, Patrick Welsh, founder, the verbiage reads -”Pat has spent the last 10 years creating and developing this ShopToEarn platform that couples networking and e-commerce. By forming partnerships with the biggest names in retail while seeking out positive partnerships with the finest green companies, our mission of helping people become healthier and wealthier is being realized by many.
Our ability to interface and partner with companies that produce products that are good for us and good for the planet will define our uniqueness as our mission of creating a wave of health and wealth and making a difference is ultimately our contribution that future generations will be proud of.”
In my opinion, STE is merely a recruiting scheme hiding under the guise of teaming up with the larger retailers (aka affiliate marketing) and promoting a “Green” company which is good for the planet. Pat’s message fails to tell you that the monthly $100 purchase of the overly inflated (opinion) green products are mandatory to receive your commission or your points are wiped out. However, even though your points are wiped out, these points are still generated up-line. Who benefits the most? STE since they own the ShopToEarth products and of course, those at the top of the pyramid. The $100 monthly requirement is passed off as being in line with the company’s philosophy when in actuality it is keeping the company solvent at the expense of the members.
With all of this information and knowledge of the FTC rulings on similar companies, I cannot in good conscious recruit members (even strangers) to sign up when they can shop online for free and get cash back and money for referring friends who also don’t have to fork over $448 plus $100 per month in products. And I failed to mention that you may not get the best price for your purchase as well as previously mentioned by another post. The STE site does not have a search engine for the product offered at the lowest price like Amazon.com or NexTag.com. You could use these sites to first see which retailer is offering the lowest price then come to STE and see if the retailer is on the list. If it’s not on the list, you could purchase it from a retailer on STE and your cash back may equal the cost offered by the lowest retailer. So, have you saved anything by spending $448 to join STE? No. You make money by recruiting and the FTC has ruled this as illegal.
FTC Rulings on Similar Online Mall Companies and FTC Related Articles on Pyramids
How does the FTC weigh in on this type of business? Below are some recent FTC rulings on online malls and an FTC related consumer article on how to spot a pyramid.
1. FTC shut down two previous shopping internet malls with links to retailers. Key passages from the article are detailed below along with the link to the to the entire FTC article:
For Release: May 12, 2005
FTC Cracks down on Internet Mall Pyramid Promoters
Operators of online malls that disguised themselves as legitimate business opportunities have settled Federal Trade Commission charges that they were actually illegal pyramid schemes, in violation of federal law. Seven individuals and four businesses will be barred from making false or misleading statements about earnings or income and engaging in illegal pyramid operations. Four also will be barred from participating in any multilevel marketing businesses. The defendants are subject to suspended judgments totaling $12 million.
The Internet mall businesses operated independently, but they shared attributes: both operations promised substantial incomes; both touted products, but investors didn’t really earn money by selling them, but by bringing in other investors; and most investors lost money.
In July 2003, the FTC filed a complaint charging that Tucson, Arizona-based NexGen3000.com and its principals marketed Internet “shopping malls” that they claimed would enable investors to earn substantial income and commissions on products bought over the Internet. The malls contained a collection of links to retail Web sites maintained by merchants. The defendants allegedly advertised their business opportunity through the NexGen Web site, live presentations, and telemarketing calls, and maintained a network of affiliates to help promote and sell the malls. Consumers paid a registration fee to join the NexGen program, and most also purchased a “WebSuite” including the Internet mall and related goods and services. A “Basic WebSuite”cost $185, including the registration fee, and a “Power Pack WebSuite” cost $555. NexGen allegedly claimed that “each activated business center has the potential to earn up to $60,000 per week.”
Link to the entire FTC article on the internet malls:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/05/nexgen.shtm
2. FTC has ruled in previous cases (law established in prior cases 1999 2Xtreme/Jewelway shutdown and final judgment)
a.Compensation plan monthly minimum purchase requirements were evidence of inventory loading and a Pyramid Scheme so clearly since this was prominent in the company’s compensation plan that — it was a pyramid scheme.
b.Over 50% were customers that were NON-Participants in the pay plan. (This means that 50 % of customers must merely participate in shopping on the portal and not be rewarded by the pay plan. MLMs are to have a product that consumers want to buy independent of the pay plan. Since all of the retailers (Target, Home Depot, etc. have direct links to the store, these are excluded. Only ShopToEarth would be included and 50 % of customers must shop here and not get commissions.)
3.FTC action against BurnLounge
The BurnLounge compensation program primarily provided payments to participants for recruiting of new participants, not on the retail sale of products or services, which the FTC alleges would result in a substantial percentage of participants losing money.
Link to the entire FTC article against BurnLounge
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/06/burnlounge.shtm
4.More from the FTC
In addition to the FTC actions, state agencies have taken law enforcement actions against 70 pyramid targets. State enforcers include the Attorneys General of Arizona, Idaho, Illinois, Kentucky, Nevada, New York; the Hawaii Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs; North Carolina and Oregon Departments of Justice; and the Wisconsin Bureau of Consumer Protection. (See attached listing)
The FTC has published a free brochure, “Profits in Pyramid Schemes? Don’t Bank On It,” that warns that consumers should:
a.Avoid any plan that offers commissions for recruiting additional distributors; (STE)
b.Beware of plans that ask new distributors to spend money on high-price inventory; ($100 in Shop To Earth)
c.Be cautious of plans that claim you’ll make money through continued growth of your ‘downline’ recruits, instead of sales; (STE)
d.Beware of plans that promise enormous earnings or claim to sell miracle products;
e.Beware of shills – decoy references used to promote the plans. (Brenda)
Copies of the “Profits in Pyramid Schemes? Don’t Bank On It,” are available from the FTC’s web site at http://www.ftc.gov and also from the FTC’s Consumer Response Center, Room 130, 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20580; toll free 1-877-FTC-HELP (877-382-4357); TDD for the hearing impaired
5.Facts for Consumers on Multi-Level-Marketing Plans
The Federal Trade Commission cannot tell you whether a particular multilevel marketing plan is legal. Nor can it give you advice about whether to join such a plan. You must make that decision yourself. However, the FTC suggests that you use common sense, and consider these seven tips when you make your decision:
a.Avoid any plan that includes commissions for recruiting additional distributors. It may be an illegal pyramid.
b.Beware of plans that ask new distributors to purchase expensive inventory. These plans can collapse quickly — and also may be thinly-disguised pyramids.
c.Be cautious of plans that claim you will make money through continued growth of your “downline” — the commissions on sales made by new distributors you recruit — rather than through sales of products you make yourself. (STE)
d.Beware of plans that claim to sell miracle products or promise enormous earnings. Just because a promoter of a plan makes a claim doesn’t mean it’s true! Ask the promoter of the plan to substantiate claims with hard evidence.
e.Beware of shills — “decoy” references paid by a plan’s promoter to describe their fictional success in earning money through the plan.
f.Don’t pay or sign any contracts in an “opportunity meeting” or any other high-pressure situation. Insist on taking your time to think over a decision to join. Talk it over with your spouse, a knowledgeable friend, an accountant or lawyer.
g.Do your homework! Check with your local Better Business Bureau and state Attorney General about any plan you’re considering — especially when the claims about the product or your potential earnings seem too good to be true.
Link to the entire FTC article on Consumer Facts
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/invest/inv12.shtm
STE Related documents:
STE Terms and Policies for Business Builders: http://www.shoptoearn.net/downloads/BB_agreement.pdf
STE Terms and Policies Website for Owners:
http://www.shoptoearn.net/downloads/WO_agreement.pdf
STE Terms and Policies for Brokers:
http://www.shoptoearn.net/downloads/BB_agreement.pdf
STE Commission Rules:
http://www.shoptoearn.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/Comm_Rules.html?sid=3stGwB1@RJpf7oM-57108590546.97
September 19th, 2008 at 11:39 am
O.K…what email do I send you the proof of my commissions and payment to?
September 19th, 2008 at 11:47 am
paul }at{ youalldisgustme >dot< com will do nicely.
September 19th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
O.K…Paul should have all my documents. I sent him my bank account transaction register to show my $wonderful$ commission payment I received today, my commission detail for august and my commission detail so far for September. I am not full of $%^&….I proved what I stated. I’m laughing at ALL YOU NEGATIVE PEOPLE as I skip my butt to the bank!!!
September 19th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Now that I have had some time to research the green products from ShopToEarth, my opinion seems to be right on target! WAKE UP STE members and potential investors!!
As most of you know, ShopToEarn/Earth requires that you spend $100 per month from their “green” retailers in order to receive your commission. In addition to forcing you to buy these products, you are spending far more than if you purchased these same products from other online retailers. For some of the vitamins I researched, you are spending almost double the cost AFTER YOUR CASH BACK. Below is a brief comparison of the prices I found on a quick search. To ensure proof of my claims that I am comparing “apples to apples”, I have screen shots of all products and prices.
1. Alacer Emergen C MuliVitamins Kids Strawberry 36 packets
Vitacost.com Price = $7.37
ShopToEarth Price = $17.45 – $2.62 (cash back) =14.83 ($7.46 MORE)
Way to go STE. Not only do your investors have to wait 1 month for their cash back (minus $5.00 for direct deposit fee), they are spending $7.46 MORE. Where is that extra profit going????
2. Alacer Emergen-C 1000 mg Vitamin C Tropical 36 packets
Amazon.com Price =$6.89
ShopToEarth Price = $14.95 – $2.24 (cash back) = $12.71 ($5.82 MORE)
These outrageous mark-ups are not limited to vitamins. Below are some other examples of STE’s overly inflated products they are forcing on their members.
3. Chocolite Protein Bars Cookies N Cream (16 bars)
Netrition.com Price = $16.99
ShopToEarth Price = $23.49-$3.52 (cash back) = $19.97 ($2.98 MORE)
4. Ark Naturals Sea Mobility Chicken Jerky Strips 3/ 9 ounce strips
Vitacost.com Price = 3 X $7.87 each = $23.61
ShopToEarth Price = $37.47 – $5.62 (cash back) = $31.85 ($8.24 MORE)
I found these in less than 20 minutes of comparison shopping. I have a good hunch that this price inflation is rampant through the green store which makes the founders and those at the top very green. WAKE UP STE investors!!!
September 20th, 2008 at 12:12 am
seriously…. EVERYONE on this blog the people who are pro and the people who are con shop to earn have no life for even getting upset at this situation and PAUL are you that lonley and old that you find time to find so much information about shop to earn what are you mad because you are one of their victims dont lie lol you know thats why your so against them. You are trying to make fun of people’s grammar and spelling are you serious how old are you? Dont you have a wife, or kids, or maybe anything besides ranking on people to do all day you weirdo. I can picture you now poor little old man wasting his time all day looking up information on shop to earn just cause you got suckered into their scheme as well hahahaah… You nasty old man! Go fucking get a life you freak! bye bye
September 20th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Hello Hi hi. To answer your accusations/questions/ramblings, in the order received:
No not that lonely, not that old, took me 15 minutes on Google, not one of their victims (interesting choice of words, by the way), I’m 31, I have a wife, I have 2 kids (both of which have been stated in the comments, please try to pay attention), I have a full-time job along with owning my own company thankyouverymuch, again – didn’t get suckered in.
I miss anything?
September 20th, 2008 at 12:54 am
CB is true to her word. I have received her email, which contains a PDF of her bank statement (BofA) and ShopToEarn earnings statements. I wasn’t given permission to post either the email or the attachment here, so I won’t, but I’d like to post a snippet:
“I joined August 5th and I had until September 4th (30 days) to get my quick start bonus’s. $500 for referring 5 in your first 30 days and $1000 for referring 10 in your first 30 days.”
CB states that she has already earned $5,019. When I add up her two STE invoices, I actually get a figure that’s slightly higher.
While her money was derived nearly exclusively by gathering referrals and not from sales – a practice that I feel is somewhat predatory to friends/family – a deal’s a deal. I called CB out, and she more or less stuffed it right back down my throat.
CB, I apologize for doubting your honesty about your income from Shop To Earn.
This doesn’t change how I feel about the company – or any MLM companies, really – but I said “put up or shut up” and CB did just that.
PS – crow tastes like shit. =)
September 20th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I think its great that CB proved that she made that money, and I have said all along that I have no doubt that people will make money, but at what expense? Any direct sales company that has its distributors making more money from recruiting than product sales is considered an illegal pyramid scheme according to the FTC, so its only a matter of time before they step in and do something about STE!
September 21st, 2008 at 1:04 am
Ok, I am a legitimate business owner. I am an Energy Consultant by trade and was introduced to shop to earn by an real estate friend of mine. I freely admit that I only made $51+ dollars my first month but I only bought stuff that I needed for business and daily life. I to date have recruited no one due to the fact that my primary business takes most of my time.
However I will say that a very trusted friend of mind has made more then $155,000 since March 21, 2008. He is already a $60 Million dollar a year business owner with a family and 3 kids. He does not have time for a scam nor can he afford one as he is a legitimate business owner.
As I move forward with my STE business, I know that it is both legitimate and viable. Join us if you care to. If not that is fine, that is why we are all allowed free choice.
September 22nd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
anyone who thinks ste is legit or a good thing, need to have their head checked for brains.
people make money on tiers for signups.. for doing nothing, people they signed up sign up others and they make money, that’s a pyramid.
the differance betweena pyramid and an MLM is an MLM must have more than 50% customers, that ahve no stake and make no money from the copmany. STE does not ahve that as all it’s ‘brokers’ buy products from their own pages, they don’t count as legit costumers.
it’s amazing how ignorant so many people are, who don’t do homework or investiage schemes they get involved with, to protect themselves against losing money, or facing legal liabilities for what could, and probably will be deemed illegal at anytime.
Doesn’t any of the morons who fall for STE think it’s fishy that there’s no real contact information? hell, i’ll give you a URL where you can send me $500.00, with no way to contact me, or better yet, just pick a stanger off the street and give him $500.00, same thing! give him your SS#, credit card numbers, and checking account numebrs as well, it’s what your doing when you sign up for STE isn’t it? giving this info to people you don’t know, and have no way to contact?
Are you all aware that STE’s lawyer, who’s lsited on their founders apge (coincidence?), threatens to sue anyone, including bloggers, who say negative things about STE? their affraid people will know he truth, and bully them for stating their opinions, findings, etc. that is negative towards STE.
need I dare ask how many STE lovers also bought timeshare’s, flexible rate mortgages (which are about to be outlawed), and Pres. Bush’s bullshit war? (err, i mean hostile business takeover of another country that did nothing to us).
wake the fuck up people, don’t be suckers your whole lives.
September 23rd, 2008 at 10:03 am
For the misguided who think they are making money by shopping hence the name, Shop To Earn, here are some more of the [b]outrageous mark-ups in the Shop To Earth site[/b] which you are forced to spend $100 per month to receive commission. You are NOT making money on sales, you are making money by suckering others into signing up which is a classic pyramid. It is only a matter of time before the FTC catches on. Frankly I don’t want my name associated with such a fraudulent business but others seem to have no scruples and have no problem taking $448 from friends, family and loved ones. I have not found one product on the Shop To Earth site which is equal to or less than the price offered by other online retailers. And, of course these other retailers are making a profit off of their products which means [b]Shop To Earth is gauging its own members!!!![/b]
Myvitanet.com Aloha Bay Mistletoe Bouquet Candle 21. oz $12.35
ShopToEarth Aloha bAy Mistletoe Bouquet Candle 21. oz $21.99 – $3.30 cash back = $18.69
[b]$6.34 (MORE)[/b]
Myvitanet.com Aloha Bay Ocean Mist Candle 21. oz
$12.35
ShopToEarth Aloha Bay Ocean Mist Candle 21. oz
$21.99 – $3.30 cash back = $18.69
[b]$6.34 (MORE)[/b]
Vitapal.com George’s Aloe Vera Shampoo 8 oz.
$3.75
ShopToEarth George’s Aloe Vera Shampoo 8 oz.
$5.95 – $.89 cash back = $5.06
[b]$1.31 (MORE)[/b]
Vitapal.com George’s Aloe Vera Conditioner 8 oz.
$4.49
ShopToEarth George’s Aloe Vera Conditioner 8 oz.
$6.89 – $1.03 cash back = $5.86
[b]$1.37 (MORE)[/b]
Vitaminthrift.com Genisoy Ultra-XT Soy Protein Shake Chocolate 22 oz. $12.91
ShopToEarth Genisoy Ultra-XT Soy Protein Shake Chocolate 22 oz. $20.19 – $3.03 cash back = $17.16
[b]$4.25 (MORE)[/b]
Imedmart.com Genisoy Protein Bars Chocolate Chip 12-1.58 oz bars $12.92
ShopToEarth Genisoy Protein Bars Chocolate Chip 12-1.58 oz bars $19.99 – $3.00 cash back = $17.99
[b]$5.07 (MORE)[/b]
September 23rd, 2008 at 9:00 pm
WOW I can’t believe the amount of hate that is going back & forth regarding STE. This company is not only solid & legitimate, people are making money! At the end of the day isn’t that what we all are striving for. Not everyone is going to get it, thats life. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just like an ass everyone has one, Stop hating
September 23rd, 2008 at 11:12 pm
I have spent about an hour researching this particular business opportunity after attending a meeting last night about ste and I must say that I am shocked at the amount of misleading information that bloggers are posting on their sites about this particular company.
I have attended numerous network marketing meetings and this one seems to be the most logical that I’ve seen from Mary Kay to Tahitian Noni. There have been many people that have gotten rich off of these opportunities, and I have learned it’s simply a matter of what type of product or service appeals to you, and what you see yourself promoting. I shop online regularly at many of the retailers on the site, so for me its a no-brainer.
Paul, I’m really curious why it is that you are so quick to judge this opportunity when you work for someone else. You admittedly work for a corporation of sorts, and we all know that corporations are nothing more than the ultimate pyramid scheme!! You just exchange your time (which I hope is worth more than $448) for less than the amount that many in many MLM companies make a month! I wonder if you take as much time researching your companies structure and speculating on the origins and history of your company from the founder to whomever is running it now! You most certainly work in a pyramid structure, I am just curious what is the difference..in your opinion, between a “pyramid” business model and the company that you work for. Your boss gets paid way more money than you, and his boss makes more money than him…right?? In fact, he gets paid from the work that you do!!
I say…so what…recruiting people is involved!!! There is full disclosure about this fact from Day 1, and I have never been mislead into believing otherwise. If I know that it cost $448 to get involved and I have to recruit a minimum of 2 people to make my initial investment back..who cares?? Plus, I can get money from products that I purchase online anyway..sounds like a good idea to me!! I still don’t see what the big deal is?? If I can make money, my family and friends can make money, and we all continue to support each other in the business…the worst case scenario is what? We make money!!
I guess for every negative statement or illogical argument that I’ve seen…the pros still outweigh the cons. It seems that many people have issues based on preconeived notions about other MLM companies, but many have been successful! In fact, many people have become multimillionaires from network marketing opportunities from Quixstar to Avon. My friend just joined last month and already made $6000, direct deposited last week! I would have been a skeptic had I not saw it for myself!!
We live in a country where our government lets its citizens lose their homes, and jobs while banks, that are responsible for protecting and managing our money get paid billion dollar welfare checks. Are you serious?? The US is the biggest pyramid scheme of them all while we’re talking about schemes!!
September 23rd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
** – again, this is merely my opinion. I have no firsthand knowledge of any trollish heritage, nor under-bridge dwelling habits of anyone at ShopToEarn.
That almost made me laugh as much as when I explained to my friend (who signed up to shoptoearn) what it actually is, how it works, and how they suckered him in the first place.
Might I also add as well that my friend tried to get his money back and could not make it within the 14 day “opt out” time period….even if he had been able to contact them in the first place.
Now he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. He either chalks up his stupidity and takes a $400+ loss or he can be a piece of shit and sucker other people the way he was suckered.
If they were a legit company, that $450 would give you some stock cert’s or some shit, no?
Not just a bs affiliated links homepage.
@Paul
Thanks for the entertaining read.
September 24th, 2008 at 9:40 am
I am exploring this opportunity and would like to hear from someone that has just started.
September 24th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Is Shop to Earn a Scam?
Some people bash Network Marketing also known as Multi-level Marketing (MLM) and say they are scams etc. Mainly because of ignorance and jealousy and also because of the recruiting aspect. I’d like to ask “What’s wrong with recruiting to grow your business?”
Don’t “normal” companies recruit and try to find the best talent? Good sales people that work on 100% commission with no promises but unlimited upside are always being courted to join a new company. Usually by promising them larger commisions.
Most big corporations actually reward employees for recruiting too! I have worked at a few large companies that would pay me a week’s salary as a bonus if I recruited someone and they stayed more than 3 months. This happens all the time. This is a free country and people decide for themselves if they want to get involved or not no?
BTW, I don’t just sign anyone up for STE, I only want the talented people. If I just wanted the lousy $100 referral fee I can sign up friends and contacts all day long. BUT I only want people that I think will be happy and want to succeed at STE. My initial of group of 22 sign ups is filled with presitgious attorneys, CPAs, succesful entrepreneurs and doctors. This is not for people who can’t make a decent living, this is for the best and brightest that “see” the opportunity of the 24/7 internet. These 22 people in 3 months have snowballed into more than 700 people in my group. I know less than 5% of these people. Are all these strangers just plain stupid? Have they all been conned?
When I graduated college in May of 1987 (5 months prior to the stock market crash), I was very highly recruited. I had about a dozen lucrative offers from all the best Wall St. firms at the time (Goldman Sachs, Salomon Brothers, JP Morgan, Shearson Lehman etc.) When I said “no thanks” to a few, they called back and offered me more money and asked me to re-consider. They promised me quick raises and promotions and the “fast-track” to the top. Hmmmm. During these go-go 1980’s they couldn’t hire top-of-the-class college kids fast enough. Then the Stock Market crashed in October of 1987 and they had massive layoffs. And of course all the recent hires were the first to go. Did anyone yell scam!! Were people calling the FTC and claiming that they were conned into an opportunity that didnt work out?
C’mon, we are all adults here. There are no guarantees in life. And trust me, $448 sign up fee is nothing compared to being out of work for weeks or months.
Some of these blogs are comical really. They don’t even believe that you will ever receive your money. Trust me, my $40,000 so far has been very real. And I have met and become friendly with some of those six-figure-a-month people. They are very real indeed. Some people just don’t get it. They won’t even buy on the internet for fear of identity theft, they keep all their money in CD’s because the stock market is too risky. Whatever floats your boat. I don’t waste my time on people that are negative or close-minded – I just move on!
SCAM?
Did you know that back in the 1940’s and 1950’s that the “Franchise Industry” was also considered a major scam?
Think about it. Many experts and most of the general public were bashing the franchise concept. If you wanted to open up a hamburger restaurant or donut shop why in the world would you ever “Buy a Franchise?”
You would actually have to give the Franchise company a lump sum up-front and then agree to pay them royalties forever before you even got started! And then contractually agree to use all their products and follow all their rules and regulations. You must post their signs and charge what they say – no more and no less. You can’t even run a special promotion or buy your own products from a local guy. You had to go to seminars and get ‘brain-washed’ into believing and trusting their supposedly “proven” system. If you failed and went broke in 3 months too bad, no refund. This was considered a huge scam! And very un-American too – sounded like a communistic dictatorship. Where’s the creativity?
Too bad they didn’t have blogs back then, can you even imagine what people would be saying???? They would so funny to read today! “You can get the very same napkins cheaper down the block !!” “their stuff is way over priced, chopmeat is on sale at the A&P for less this week!!” Its a business people, and you take the good with the bad sometimes.
Well of course we now know that Franchises have become a HUGE success. “An idea who’s time has come” hmmmm….sound familiar?
It wasn’t until the early 1960’s, that people finally understood the concept and power behind this great idea. And what happened to McDonald’s owners? how about the stock? Today its EASIER to get a business loan for a franchise than any other business loan.
Anyone that opened up a few McDonald’s franchises back then is very, very wealthy. Too bad my parents weren’t “recruited and brain-washed” and bought into this “scam” and followed their training program – I would be set right now. Scam huh? Sound familiar? Who’s laughing now?
The STE “scam” has grown from 4,000 to 40,000 in the last 3 months. It will be over 100,000 by year’s end. By 2010 it will be over 1 million. And it will never get closed down becuase they are very diligent and make sure they abide by all the rules, but mainly because there are way too many happy people. The success stories far outweigh the losers. BTW, the real residual money comes from the shopping – if you join and take a closer look, that’s the real money, but that takes months to start since the Fortune 500 retailers can take up to 90 days to give the cash back (which generate the points)
This opportunity is a major Home Run, if you can’t get past this that’s ok. I wish you well in whatever you choose to do with your time. Personally, I like helping and inspiring people to reach their goals. Its fun!
September 24th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
The price comparison that was done by PA Mom in a previous post talked about the inflated prices on STE. She used Alacer Emergen C MuliVitamins Kids Strawberry 36 packets as one of her examples and said STE charges $17.45, which is true.
PA Mom doesn’t understand how business is done in this country. She’s over-simplifying this price issue. While it is true that vitacost.com charges $7.37, there is another company VDCUSA that charges $43.19 for the same product! What PA Mom doesn’t realize is that company’s prices are affected by many factors. Some might offer free or discounted shipping so they charge more. Some might be paying additional benefits or have really high overhead because of employee benefit costs or budget over runs, and their prices reflect the margins they need in order to be profitable. And by the way, it’s not a bad thing to want to be a profitable company. Ask the investment banks in NY that have failed and are begging the US Gov’t for $700 billion in handouts if they couldn’t use a little more profit right now.
It is not uncommon for stores to have a wide range of prices for the exact same product. Go and see for yourself http://www.shopwiki.com/detail/d=Alacer,_Emergen-C_Kids_Multi-Vitamin,_Strawberry_Flavor_-_36_Packets_(B000MKM21S)/jumpToFirst=t/
While PA Mom has been busy clipping coupons and looking for the lowest possible prices on everything she buys, there are many of us out here who are too busy and don’t care about finding the lowest price. As a result, we gladly pay a premium for convenience; but I can promise you when we pay more for things it’s worth it. Time is money. It’s all about what you value.
To a mom with kids (like PA Mom) clipping coupons and saving money is probably the most important thing. You value saving money which is understandable. There’s no inherent value for you to pay more for a product when you can get it cheaper somewhere else. I see where you’re coming from.
However, for an entrepreneur I see a lot of value in owning a company for $448 and being able to resell products without having to invest in any computer infrastructure, insurance, employees, payroll taxes, workers compensation, etc. So I don’t mind paying a little more for some products if that is a cost of doing business.
I drive a Mercedes S 500. There are many more cars out there that I could drive that are a lot cheaper and better on gas (my V8 is very thirsty). A $500 piece of crap car could get me to my office exactly the same way my Benz does. From point A to point B. So why would I choose to drive a car that costs 200 times more than I really need to pay? I do it because it’s worth it.
PA Mom, people are not just looking for the cheapest price on products. Anyone who sees the value in owning their own business with STE, doesn’t care that some of the products are not the cheapest; it’s a cost of doing business. And I want to point out, that those same STE products are NOT the most expensive. It’s worth it to us, to shop on our own sites, get cash back on our purchases, and make money by others doing the same. This business model isn’t for everyone. Some people just don’t have the guts to do it. If you’re scared, say your scared. It’s ok, everyone will still love you.
You keep clipping coupons and good luck trying to save yourself rich. The few dollars of savings that you proved in your comparison of prices are so inconsequential to most people, that if they dropped those amounts on the ground and they were in a hurry they wouldn’t even stop to pick it up. STE is a viable business which requires a lot of hard work. If you work hard, you can earn a really good living.
I’ve spent my entire professional life working in sales and sales management for Fortune 500 companies. I don’t know how many 500’s you’ve purchased services from, but they usually don’t have the least expensive products and services. How have they survived when they are not the least expensive? They survive because their customers see the value in doing business with them. It’s worth it.
By the way, if I bought all the products you compared to the STE store from the cheaper sites I would have saved $49.18. Are you trying to convince me, that I shouldn’t start my own business that has no overhead because I might be over paying on a few products by $50 bucks? I hope you’re not serious? It would cost me $150,000 to start any traditional brick and mortar business and I would pay $50,000 a month overhead with payroll and everything else. $50 bucks might be a lot of money to you, but it’s tip money for me and I’ll take STE over coupon cutting any day of the week.
Good luck with your crumb crunchers.
AJ
September 25th, 2008 at 10:40 am
I’ve never doubted that money was to be made but it’s PRIMARILY from recruiting and not from shopping, PERIOD!!!!!!! I would like to know the breakdown of money earned from recruiting and money made from shopping. I’m sure the number is inflated also as you have to take out $450 start up fee and $100 minimum monthly payments on INFLATED prices. So please tell us your breakdown? If it’s about shopping then your numbers should be pretty even? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!!
September 26th, 2008 at 10:23 am
joeMorristown,
HELLO-you are recruiting and not selling anything. STE is merely providing an affiliate link to online retailers which Joe Schmoe can do for free at many sites such as cashbaq.com, ebates.com, etc… McDonald’s franchise owners are actually selling hamburgers. Where’s the beef with STE?
And what about the price gauging on the required $100 per month ShopToEarth products? I understand clearly why the reason for the outrageous mark-ups in the ShopToEarth products. The overly inflated prices makes those above you rich at the expense of those lower in the pyramid (oh, I mean hierarchy, LOL).
You haven’t come up with a rebuttal to the FTC rule that 50 % of the sales must come from consumers NOT involved with the commission plan either. STE (and their former Amway lawyer) probably already know that the FTC usually allows three years for a company to prove that this is happening. Hum, I wonder if STE will take down their shingle and vanish into the night in about two years?
So you like helping others and inspiring them? I bet you don’t see a reflection when you look in the mirror.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Cashbaq and your other examples are NOT like STE. If it were that simple STE would not have 40,000 people in less than 6 months. These other places only give back a portion and keep the rest for profits. Which is fine by me, everyone needs to make a living. STE refunds the entire 100%. See Target is only 5% and STE is 10% back.
You only need to re-invest a mere $100 of your profits into Shop to Earth if you are scoring commissions and its on a month by month basis. No commissions this month? no need to re-invest in your health and the planet’s health. You also do NOT have to spend any of your cash back rebates for purchases you made, don’t even have to spend your $100 referral fees for healthy stuff. Only if you are running this as a business. Me, I’m already making some nice money, so I will gladly buy some Granola bars each month and hand them out to friends.You should get more informed before you bash.
I still don’t see how recruiting is such a crime ONLY when it comes to MLM’s? Example: All the stock brokerage houses ( Merril Lynch, Paine Webber, Smith Barney etc etc ) have recruited like crazy over the last 5 decades. They get nice people to quit their jobs (a lot more risky then investing $448) with promises of becoming a millionaire stock broker. they demand you work FULL-TIME! STE is part-time and no one is saying to quit your job. People leave steady jobs and try this new career as a “Financial Advisor” they spend money and time passing tests and getting licensed for their 100% commission job (no salary, just get paid if you produce) and then are trained to GET THE ASSETS OF ALL THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES INTO THE BROKERAGE HOUSE. Statistically about 75% of these people fail/quit after 2 years BUT the brokerage house gets to keep more than 60% of the assets because people just are too lazy to switch their accounts yet again. Brokerage houses only have one thing in mind – to get assets, and they’ve always used recruitment to do it. Except when these 75% fail as a stockbroker you need to find another job. This can be seriously life aletering no?
Can this be viewed as a scam? absolutely, almost anything can be viewed as a scam if you want to see it that way.
Hey all you negative bloggers, here’s something else to think about . . . if people are happy with STE and are making money and having fun, why does that upset you? Is it because you feel the need to save innocent people from spending and losing their $448? Do you have a ’save the world’ complex? Or maybe you just get upset at people making money at something you could never see yourself being good at? If your neighbor built a technology company and sold it for millions would you be happy for him? sounds like you would be very jealous.
I find this passion pretty arrogant of you. You seem to think that there are lots of stupid people out there that are so easily conned and its YOUR job to protect them. wtf?
This is not for everyone, but 40,000 people already learned the prgram and jumped in and there will be 100’s of thousands of “victims” soon, so many stupid people.
There will always be 5% that hate it and want out, so right now that’s 2,000 people. but there are 38,000 people that like it. Sorry. Oh and if you know the program, the real money is in the shopping – that’s the product, your own virtual mall.
Haven’t your read the recent articles by Paul Zane Pilzer, Donald Trump etc saying the Networking marketing is the wave of the future? The efficiencies of the internet is now changing all of corporate america. Working from home is the future and the goal. Save time, gas, travel and money. These experts are saying that the days of having a billion dollar company with the CEO getting paid $20-50 million a year and the top 25-30 shareholders worth 1/2 a Billion in equity are coming to an end. The future companies will have 1,000 people making 1 million a year from home.
Get with it already!
September 26th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Btw, what is all this talk about STE has no product? When someone signs someone else up for $448, They just sold them a product! a Virtual Mall and Web Portal that provides cash of 1-30% back on purchases at 600+ retail stores. 78% of that cost ($349) is for this Web Portal. They also get 2 domain names EXAMPLE: http://www.shoptoearn.net/apt AND http://www.shoptoearth.net/apt .
This is 2008 folks! These web-sites, software programs, web portals and domain names ARE PRODUCTS. Just because you can’t eat it, or wear it, doesn’t mean its not a commodity. So there will never be any FTC issues about recruiting and no product etc.
STE has sold 40,000 plus products already. Sorry for the naysayers.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Update:
My friend Derek has been in STE for 7 weeks and has made over $4000.00, yes I verified and he really make 4k. As all of you know, I have been saying that the FTC is definitely going to be looking into STE and after speaking with Derek today I am even more convinced. He is a newbie to this industry and when I explained to him about the FTC regulations on what is considered an illegal pyramid scheme and what is not, he turned white! I’m not kidding; he told me that he did not make any money at all from selling product, because he sold NOTHING!!!!! So that income was solely made from recruiting!!!! Now he is nervous because he has friends and family that joined up based on his recommendation because they trust him!!!
September 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
I don’t get what people on this blog do not get!!!! 50% of the sales MUST come from customers not in the program!!! People are getting paid to RECRUIT!!!! They are not getting paid from retailing product and accumulating points from the sales of products!!! Look at the percentage payouts for products, VERY SMALL, yet you get 200 points for a recruit and $100.00, by all standards of the FTC it is considered an illegal pyramid scheme, PERIOD!
September 26th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Robinator,
You say that “50% of the sales MUST come from customers not in the program!!! ” I’m trying to explain to you that ALL of the sales are coming from people not in the program!!!
Example:
I assume you are not a Shop to Earn website owner, you are currently NOT in the program. So if I sell you your own website/domain name/shopping portal/software/shopping tracking program. I JUST SOLD A PRODUCT TO A PERSON WHO IS NOT IN THE PROGRAM. I make a commission for the sale, I get $100 bux and get points. AND JUST LIKE ANY LEGIT MLM, I CAN ALSO GET POINTS/OVERRIDES ON OTHERS SELLING THIS PRODUCT TO OTHERS NOT IN THE PROGRAM. What don’t you get my friend?
These guys have it all figured out. This is a HOME RUN!
September 26th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
“AND JUST LIKE ANY LEGIT MLM”
*wipes tear*
Thank you joe. I needed that laugh.
Legit MLM….you people crack me up….
September 27th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Not sure what’s so funny Paul. I guess you gave your head in the sand. I thought you knew that this is 2008 and multi-level marketing has been around for 30+ years and there are dozens of MLM companies that are tarded on the stock exchanges. I guess they are all scams though huh. Even the SEC and the stockholders are just not as sharp as you.
September 27th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
recruiting is a product? hahahahahahahahhahaa
you don’t get a ‘website’ or ‘portal’, it’s theirs, on their site, they run it, they own it, not you.
All you MLM and ScamToEarn suckers can try to twist things all youwant (like with your sales pitches to get people to sign up), it’s still what it is, an illegal pyramid scheme.
and what’s so great about getting cash back purchasing overly inflated priced products through a portal you had to pay to use to begin with? even with the ‘cash back’, everything costs more than if you want directly to the store (and don’t give me the crap that the portal goes directly to the store, it doesn’t, it goes to the store’s affiliate program where prices can be adjusted by the end user, ScamToEarm jacks up the prices so the upline makes profit as well, costing you even more even after the ‘cash back’).
What creditable company makes people pay to promote them? they pay people to promote and refer. You can sign up at Amazon.com and hudnreds of other affiliate programs, totally free, incorperate it into your own website, promote what you want from them, earn commision on sales and referral’s.. nothing out of your pocket at all, and prices are the same as the store itself, not jacked up becuase there is no upline above you getting money from your efforts.
If you went to get a job somewhere as a salesperson, they dont make you pay to join the company, they pay you!
Get your heads out of your asses, ScamToEarn is a pyramid scam.. that’s all it is.
September 27th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Plain and simple. You are wrong about them jacking up the prices at the 500 plus Shop to Earn stores like Home Depot, Staples, Macy’s, Sports Authority, Target etc. You simply do not know the facts. You get all the very same prices and discounts and promotions. Sorry, but its true.
I’ve done nothing but tell the truth and report the facts as I have experienced them to date. You’re allowed your version from outside looking in, but I am involved, I own a web-site, I am making money, I have people thanking me for showing them this model, and therefore only people like me really know how this works. If you joined 4 months ago, then you could become a better source of info. As of today, it all sounds like sour grapes.
This only adds conviction to someone that has researched STE and is mulling over these blogs while they decide to buy a website.
Keep up the good work, I am getting at least 1 or 2 emails a day with people asking to sign up under me. XXOOO !!
Oh and by the way, I sleep very good at night, I sleep like an MLM Millionaire on a Monday morning . . . on his yacht.
September 27th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
There is no doubt that you can make bundles of money in this program, I will say this “make it while you can” because if the company does not change the pay plan there will undoubtedly be problems.
September 27th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Doesn’t it concern anyone that there is not phone number or email for STE????? How do you contact them? Do you need to mail them a letter to contact them? I find that very strange!
September 27th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
“There is no doubt you can make bundles of money in this program”,
– Robinator
STE skeptic
9/27/08
You are sooooooo right my friend!!!!!!!!!!
Does it concern me that YOU can’t contact them? Please! Actually I can contact them. I can get Pat or Dan or Joe on the phone within minutes if I really wanted to. I have had lunch with all of them a few times. Even Soda. I also have spoken to them on the phone. And even though I have made more than $42,000 in less than 4 months, I am basically a nobody. I am probably not even in the top 1,000 money earners.
But I respect that these guys are busy. They have a billion dollar company on their plate, they don’t have time for people with silly questions about when or why $100/month on shop to earth. All of the info you need is on your website. there is no smoke and mirrors here trust me. Before you buy a website, read the details and rules on your friend’s site. Its all there in black and white.
I have been there, I know the juice and electricity they have have every day. I’ve grown companies from nothing to multi-millon dollar VC capital infusions. They have pages and pages of details and FAQ’s for all to see. There’s nothing you can ask them that they haven’t already answered there on the website.
Maybe you want to buy $25,000 worth of shares of JP Morgan Chase on Monday. Do you need to speak to the CEO Jamie Dimon first? Try to get him on the phone! Call investor relations and ask them a question . . . good luck!
all you people . . . .Robinator, Itsme, Paul and PA Mom . . . PA Mom???? what kind of handle is that? I’m a dad, I have 3 kids, should I be NJ Dad? whatever
I know all you people think I may be brainwashed or misled, or that maybe I’m a charlatan of some sort. And you all are rooting for me and STE to be shut down. You think MLM’s are crazy and illegal pyramid schemes. So silly.
Have you ever hear of a company called Citgroup? how about Traveler’s? BTW, they are one in the same, and guess who owns these two behomoth companies? I’m talking one of the biggest companies on the planet . . . Primerica bought them both. Primerica was originally A.L. Williams – one of the original and best MLM’s. Yes an MLM bought Travellers insurance . . . The Umbrella, who then bought Citibank and Smith Barney. Google it. I can’t make this up.
You guys are clueless. Read some recent information – MLM’s have beeb a proven business model for 30 years plus. The internet has made it even easier. The time has come.
Sorry to be so upbeat and futuristic.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
ITS ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!
check out who BOUGHT Travelers Insurance, CitiBank and Smith Barney . . . in that order. A certain company called Primerica, which was originally a company called A.L. Williams – a TRUE MLM!!! ooooh gosh . . . can it be true??????????? just google it and do some minimal research! google “primeroca” or take an NYU or Wharton MBA elective on MLM’s.
Sorry dinosaurs! the world isn’t flat after all! The internet is a major household tool who’s time has come! No need to sit intraffic anymore!!!
September 28th, 2008 at 9:26 am
joeMorristown,
It’s very pathetic that you have resorted to bashing my handle. What kind of person are you? Oh that’s right, the type who sleeps like a baby swindling friends and family members in an illegal pyramid scheme. As for the phone numbers of Pat, Dan or Joe–why don’t you share those numbers if they have nothing to hide? So you are having lunch with them as well. Sounds like you’re on the inside. No wonder you spend so much time blogging the virtues of ScamToEarn. Were you on the State of the Company teleconference last month? How Mickey Mouse was that? There were thousands on the call and they opened it up for folks to say hi and where they were from only to hear hundreds chiming in at the same time. I couldn’t stop laughing until they tried it again and the same thing happened. At this point I was rolling on the floor. Not to mention the idiot who thought he was alone with the other presenters when everyone was attached and listening to his moronic droning. Then we were all chastised by Pat Welsh about the number of support tickets (almost 1000 per day)they were receiving and a weak attempt to explain why the Web site was down. Way to pump up the masses Pat!
And, their FAQs are a joke. Pages and pages of nothing and certainly nothing addressing the concerns of FTC rules and regulations. Here’s the laughable document-
http://www.shoptoearn.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/FAQ.html?sid=3stGwB1@SJlI9zh-08108589428.84
I am not from the outside looking in. I am in and can see it clearly for what it is and more importantly, what it isn’t. STE is not a legitimate MLM. Robinator, Paul, itsme all get it. You are not selling a product. You are selling a position on the pyramid pure and simple.
Then there are the twice weekly e-mails from STE requesting help with support tickets which they cannot handle from members. Why is STE receiving 1000 e-mails per day in support tickets??? They are trying to say the 95 % of the answers are in the pitiful FAQs that they constantly update or in the evasive commission rules. Hum–I have been a member since July and haven’t seen a significant change in the content of the FAQs since then. Here is the message sent Sept 25th.
Our Customer Support is receiving 1000 emails and Support Tickets a day, when 95% of them can be answered by slowing down and getting familiar with your Virtual Training / Support Center. PLEASE go through your ENTIRE Virtual Office and the Training / Support Center before submitting a Support Ticket.
The MOST efficient way to communicate with Customer Support is through the Support Ticket System. Please do not email the company unless directed to do so. If you are unable to log into your Virtual Office, please contact the person who referred you, your Huckleberry, have him/her open a Support Ticket on your behalf.
There are a number of concerns that slow down the resolution of an issue:
Not providing enough information. Please provide the ID#’s, names, User ID’s, order #’s, etc of all parties involved. If you are having problems completing Step 2 or logging in, tell us the error message you are receiving. The more information you provide, the less time it will take to research.
Opening multiple Support Tickets and sending corporate emails for the same issue. This has become a HUGE concern for Customer Service and it only increases the time it takes to get your issue resolved. When you or someone in your business has an issue, PLEASE ONLY OPEN 1 SUPPORT TICKET. We’re receiving multiple emails and Support Tickets from multiple people on the same exact issue. Our Corporate emails and Support Tickets are handled by the same department. So HELP US HELP YOU. We read EVERY EMAIL and EVERY SUPPORT TICKET. In addition, once a Support Ticket has been closed, it can be REOPENED for up to 48 hours. Simply click on Reopen and update your Support Ticket. We can not tell you how much time this will save getting your issue resolved, as we will not have to research all of your Support Tickets. Keep one issue in one Support Ticket.
Be Patient! Often, someone will submit a Support Ticket and then update it before we’ve had an opportunity to read it. When this occurs, the Support Ticket falls to the bottom of the queue, as if it is a new Support Ticket. So please be patient with us, as we will get to it much quicker if you let us.
Lacking the knowledge of Commission Rules & Commission Periods & Score! Commissions. If you do not know where to find or how to read the SCORE! Commission details, please contact the person who referred you to ShopToEarn as he/she has been paid a $100 Training Bonus.
Our business model is simple; we get paid to shop and refer, and the more you shop and the more you refer, the more you’re going to earn…it really is that simple!
We thank you for your attention to this and help us, help you, by paying attention to this email.
All The Best,
STE
ShopToEarn • 3441 S Eastern Ave • Las Vegas, Nevada
Please do not reply to this e-mail as we are not able to respond to messages sent to this address.
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September 28th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
PA mom and Robinator,
Since you seem so concerned with contacting someone at STE, I will give you a little hint. MEMBERS have email support in their back office to contact the company. I have contacted them a few times and have always received a response.
The email sent out by the company regarding support tickets was sent because members were emailing the company with questions that are answered by simply looking in the back office.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
FJM: are you suggesting that one needs to actually fork over money before being privileged enough to be granted an audience via email? That’s crap and you know it. Any legit company has a phone number where people can call and get some questions answered before AND after signing up.
joeMorristown: “They have a billion dollar company on their plate, they don’t have time for people with silly questions about when or why $100/month on shop to earth.”
Really? A billion dollar company, and they can’t even spare a couple bucks to hire a $10/hr wage slave to answer questions if someone has them, eh? Stop drinking the Kool-Aid and start thinking for yourself.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Funny, I have no questions at all for STE, I learned the program and I am getting yet another check north of $11,000 this month. And I will gladly spend my $100 on the Earth side (net $80 because I get $20 bux back). I am very comfortable with all of this and so are the 22 people I signed up, most of which have made 10x their investment.
I now have well over 700 people in my organization in less than 4 months and have netted about $44,000
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE FTC GIVES A DAMN ABOUT SHOP TO EARN RIGHT NOW WITH THE WORLD ECONOMY IN SHAMBLES? I think they may be a little more concerned about predatory lending and mortgage issues.
If people want to take a flyer on $448 for an opportunity, what’s the big deal? STE will be a huge succes, mostly because 95% of the website owners aren’t bitching.
September 28th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I’m going to keep this relatively short and sweet (in contrast to some other posts):
I was recruited by two friends to participate in STE, and almost joined after hemming and hawing on the legitimacy of the whole company as well as the moral issues that go with basically earning money off of a “club membership”. If most people are interested in just earning $$ on the from shopping then join other sites for FREE. Someone commented earlier that there is no buyers remorse by joining STE because you can shop your fave retailers and get cash back. But there is remorse if you spend approximately $450 not to mention annual renewal fees, when you can get cash back by shopping with BigCrumbs.com too, but again for free.
It’s a FREE website that pays us cash back every time we buy something on eBay, plus we can also get cash back at other top retailers and earn extra cash when other people shop.
BigCrumbs.com has been around for over 2 years and eBay members have earned cash back on millions of dollars in purchases.
Just use the link below to check it out and let me know what you think.
http://www.bigcrumbs.com/crumbs/frontpage.jsp
Paul – feel free to check out the legitimacy. It’s truly free and minus the slime.
September 28th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Paul,
Its not crap. When a new member signs up, they must have a current member that they are going under. The company pays the $100 training bonus to that person to educate and teach the new member how to navigate their back office. Why would they want to hire a $10/hr person to answer questions from 40k people, when they already are paying you $100 for each sign up to educate them? There are videos on almost anything that you need answered in your office. when there was 3-4K members, it was tolerable, but with 40K members now, website owners NEED to do their homework and read and view what they are provided by the company.
Again, people familiar with the company who understand how it works knows this. You and the rest of the people looking in from the outside who have no clue, should learn to stop typing nonsense.
BTW, call Dell, HP and hundreds of other companies to answer some silly questions and you be connected to someone in India or Pakistan who can’t even speak English. i usually end up hanging up. i guess you should contact them and suggest that they hire some $10/hr people.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am
FACT: One of the biggest and largest companies on the planet was grown and purchased by an MLM company. A company that created 10’s of thousands of millionaires along the way just with income, this does not include the millions in IPO’s. AND this exponential growth was way before the internet! Shop to Earn has everything working in its favor right now: People looking for job security, people looking to save gas, time and money, people concerned about planet earth, people wanting to stay home and make money – who likes traffic jams?
What company is this? No not Amway – Amway is undeniably a huge success story too, but is still a privately held company. I’m talking about Primerica Financial Services, which started as an MLM company called A.L. Williams in 1977. Some people thought it was a scam and it would be closed down! It was obviously all a big recruitment, pyramid scam! you recruit and recruit and make money off of others selling Life Insurance! people said the real money was in the “sign up fees and overpriced seminars and licensing courses” all this COMBINED with Life Insurance sales, as if that didn’t already have enough of a sleezy reputation..
But guess what? they kept growing and growing and they went public in 1982, grew so big that they actually bought Shearson Lehman AND Traveler’s Insurance in the same year 1993 – yes the red umbrella company . They kept the Travelers name and traded on the NYSE under TRV.
Then in 1997, they had so much cash, they figured maybe we should buy Salomon Brothers Inc.. THEN in APRIL, 1998, this MLM company was in the largest merger Wall St. has ever seen. Yes, they merged with Citibank and became Citigroup, which has 2 TRILLION dollars in assets. That’s Trillion with a capital “T” (although after the last few weeks, it may only be $1.2 Trillion!).
All this growth BEFORE the internet was even invented!!! Shop to Earn is off to an amazing start, a unique combination of having a friendly product (a harmless on-line web-shopping portal) and this enormous e-commerce/earth friendly movement.
Aren’t you glad you have this opportunity right in front of you? Don’t waste it my friends!
September 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
LMAO. FJM you rock. Everything that you said is so true. Paul and PA MOM are dinosaurs that are still listening to 8 Tracks and can’t see the future. In 20 years there may not even be a brick and mortar store to go to. Look around at all the vacant store fronts. THE INTERNET AND THE GREEN MOVEMENT ARE HERE TO STAY AND STE HAS THEM BOTH. STE WILL CONTINUE TO GROW AND A YEAR FROM NOW PA MOM AND PAUL WILL LOOK BACK AND SAY, “WHY COULDN’T I SEE THIS COMING!!!!!!!! WHAT WAS I THINKING?”
Save this and print it out. Keep it in a safe place. Ten years from now you can show your family JUST how close you came to being part of this company and being financially secure for life.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Itsme should not be allowed to post on this site. TALK ABOUT GETTING THE FACTS WRONG. My God. HOW Freaking embarrassing for that person. Jacking prices up???????????????? OMG. If you had the slightest clue about STE you would know that when you shop on STEarn, you go directly to the stores actual internet website with all the sales, discounts, coupons etc.. DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT? So I guess what you’re saying is that Sears and Walmart and the other 500-600 companies have 2 separate internet sites(One for STE clients to go to where they inflate all the prices on 1000’s of products and one for everyone else in the world?) Funny, I just tried it and the prices and sales are IDENTICAL. You don’t know the facts and should just go away and leave the blogging to people who know the product. If you are against getting healthier and wealthier, that’s fine. But please just go away, FAR away.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Another website spewing your BS???
Maybe you don’t have questions cause you drink the Kool-Aid from some “top” people but what “billion” dollar company doesn’t have customer service?? You’ll slant your answers on this website just like you did on the others. What about the thousands of “business” owners that do have questions? Don’t they have a right? Obviously if their getting thousands of emails, there’s problems. There can’t be that many people that don’t understand the SLANTED commission payouts. It’s easy for you Joe “0″, everytime you sign someone up you get $100, wow keep scamming people and you get your money. Your worse than most car salesman that will say anything to get the sale. I’m sure you know Brenda too!!!!!!
You’ve made no money from recruiting?????????? HAHAHAHA!!!!!! It’s because of people like you that the nation is in shambles. How’s the title business? That’s why you have to find a new scam pal.
FJM,
You’re just as bad! Scamtoearn wants ALL profits that’s why they’re unwilling to start up a phone service? Maybe they know they won’t be around to long so why bother?
Check out BurnLounge FJM and Joe “0″, see how that scam/pyramid is doing now. Same BS different product but both are the “next great thing”.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
After doing some investigation on this company I would guess that this is a scam. Shoptoearn.net who is supposedly based in NV is not registered with the state to do business. Their website is registered to a company called the Nox Foundation located in West, FL. They do not have a phone number and also are not listed with the state of Florida to do business. The only contact information is for another company based in TN. PEOPLE BEWARE!!! Reputable companies would have valid contact information and would be registered to do business!
September 29th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Thanks to Paul for his insight and for this evenings entertainment. I’ve been spared the uncomfortable get together with new found “friends” that are suddenly interested in my economic well being. My friends are friends and not business opportunities.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Hey Wake up Joe O person,
AGAIN,
There are videos on almost anything that you need answered in your office. when there was 3-4K members, it was tolerable, but with 40K members and growing daily, website owners NEED to do their homework and read and view what they are provided by the company. 95% of the answers are all there. THEN, if you don’t see the answer you can send an email and get a response.
Again, people familiar with the company who understand how it works knows this. You and the rest of the people looking in from the outside who have no clue, should learn to stop typing nonsense.
Maybe i”ll start my own company called Shop To Learn. You can be my first sign up.
September 30th, 2008 at 1:22 am
I live in West Palm Beach, FL, ther eis no NOX Foundation, i’ve checked. I even went to the Post Office and checked the PO box, which is one of those little $25 per 6 month boxes, with a red tag hanging on it because no one goes to collect the mail from it.
When someone pitched ScamToEarn to a non-profit I work with, chartered by the city itself, as a ‘fund-raiser’, a ton of questions came up by the city about it. The attorney advised against a non-profit organization geting involved with ScamToEarn, especailly as a fun-draiser due to it’s setup (a pyramid), others profitting off a non-profit ‘fund-raiser’, and various tax descrepencies involved with these type of scams. The people pitching ScanToEarn to the non-profit sat there and lied outright saying ‘no one makes any money, only the non-profit will’.. the non=profit directors only had to go to ScamToEarn’s own website to read how everyone makes commission off it. Half the stores ScamToEarn lsits are already sponsor’s of the non-profit as well, and when they were contacted, had no clue what ShopToEarn was, alls aying they have so many affliates who sign up, they don’t investigate them unless a problem is brought to their attention.
As for price gauging.. ScamToEarn has the highest markups i’ve ever seen in an MLM scam. I’ve checked the prices at many STE ‘portals’ compared to what I pay directly from the store, couldn’t find anything through STE that wouldn’t cost me at least $5 more per item, and if there’s a problem with the item, good luck returning it and waiting 2 more weeks for it.
and comparing STE to major corps that the government wants to bail at at seven hundred million dollars of OUR money isn’t exactly a good selling point either. Read a newspaper (aside fromt he sprots and comics), you may learn something,
September 30th, 2008 at 10:45 am
MarsToEarth-STE is a scam you morons!
Not registered in any state, no phone number and the other obvious problems.
STE allows you a spot on the pyramid so you can sell others a spot on the pyramid. You get a login and password to do something you can already do for free. Along with that you get to spend $100 per month in the ShopToEarth where it costs you $20 for a candle that you can purchase for $12 elsewhere. What a bargain. The FTC is very clear on this and there are many precedents already mentioned which have been closed down. STE is illegal because
1. You primarily make your money recruiting others in the scheme
2. 50% of the sales must come from consumers NOT on the pyramid and this will never happen with STE
3. Monthly requirement to purchase overly marked-up goods available elsewhere or lose commission
4. Lose your commission if 1/3 of your points don’t come from the left or right which promotes more recruiting of more investors not sales of an actual product
September 30th, 2008 at 11:48 am
ITSME. GO AWAY.
YOUR STATEMENT SHOWS ME THAT YOU ARE CLUELESS
“As for price gauging.. ScamToEarn has the highest markups i’ve ever seen in an MLM scam. I’ve checked the prices at many STE ‘portals’ compared to what I pay directly from the store, couldn’t find anything through STE that wouldn’t cost me at least $5 more per item, and if there’s a problem with the item, good luck returning it and waiting 2 more weeks for it.
FOR THE LAST TIME; YOU SHOP AT THE WEBSITE OF THE RETAILER WITH SAME PRICES, SALES AND COUPONS AS EVERYONE ELSE. THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY TO MARK UP ANYTHING.
YOU ARE WRONG AND HAVE NO CREDIBILITY TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING REGARDING STE.
(EDITOR’S NOTE: Remember kids, nothing says that the other guy is clueless like typing in all caps.)
September 30th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
My my FJM, so angry. Itsme is referring to the ShopToEarth products. Show me that these prices are the same everywhere else on the Internet. Not true. I have already detailed the comparison prices product by product, size by size, site by site.
You would think that there would be some employee discount for these “required” products not an outlandish mark-up. (For those who don’t know- required means that to earn that month’s commission, you MUST purchase these items or your commission vanishes.)
OK-I’ll let you recruit for my company and it will only cost you $448 plus $119 annually and $100- $20 cash back ($80) per month in products that I could purchase for $50 elsewhere. But I wouldn’t do that because I don’t need the crap offered in these stores. So I am going to stockpile this junk. Maybe STE investors will be giving this inventory away for XMAS gifts. It’s going to be a very Merry XMAS for some friends and family of STE members. You’re going to be coerced into forking over $448 to join in the next few months and will receive a lovely gift from Santa as well.
Oh no. This idea will end up on the FAQs regarding the $100 monthly requirement. It’s right up there with giving the products to charity. If I had $100 to give to charity I would give them the cash not the crap.
September 30th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Wow… great info from all directions. Yes, I’m in STE and satisfied with it at this point. Made my money back and then some. A lot of facts being posted, a lot of fiction being posted. Somewhere in the middle is the truth. I spent about $2,000 dollars on airplane tickets and hotel rooms via my portal which put me on my usual web sites. I’m happy with that.
Since there is so much going back and forth I thought I would only point out the last one from PA Mom. Take away all the Illegalities that you mention because the FTC, in this internet age, will catch up if it is, and probably pretty soon. I’m sure your blog posting has already drawn their attention. That will then verify what you are saying. I thnk the constant comparison in shopping is warranted if in perspective.
I believe it would be fair to also compare the shoppers at Macy’s and other top shelf stores where those items are also available at cheaper prices elsewhere. It all depends on where you want to shop. The prices on Shop to Earth are the Suggested retail prices put out by the manufacturers as verified by going directly to their sites. They are not jacked up as you might say.
Number 3. Don’t spend the money and your points get flushed. That is different then ‘lose commission’. You will always get your direct cash back and you don’t say that.
Number 4: first you never lose your cash back no matter what your point situation is. And, you don’t lose your points (they are not flushed) just because you are out of balance, they continue to grow until you hit the point combos and then you get that amount. If points hit, 200/400 you get $50, never taken away. 400/800 $100 never taken away. 800/1600 $100, never taken away. 1600/3200 $300, never taken away so you never lose the points, you just have to wait until you build enough on the other leg to cover that amount. Once you get it, you never lose it.
Are MLM’s great businesses to be in? Absolutely questionable! The old timers out there (Amway, Mary kaye, etc) have been around since the 60’s. The new versions are internet based and create their own set of problems and will wash out in the future. Even Donald Trump touts the MLM business in his book. If you respect his business sense, than that is good… if you don’t, it doesn’t matter what he says.
How much money can you lose in STE. Well, if you don’t sign anybody up or do any shopping on line, $448. How much with, say, monavie? You have 2 months plus the remaining days in the month that you joined before you have to have $100 business developed via shop to earth. Plenty of time to decide not to spend it. If you are inventory loading yourself… you probably would no matter what you do in business. Short note: I know 3 people who backed out and got their refunds as fast as any company or retail store gives refunds on internet purchases.
It wasn’t for them, its not for everybody.
September 30th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Are you really that ignorant? I don’t mean for signing up with STE. That pretty much proves that you’re willing to do anything to make a buck, however morally dishonest it is.
No, I’m talking about FJM (getm1@aol.com), mark (markq@optonline.net), lisa (lisam@optonline.net), Laugh at an MLM? (jocchio123@optonline.net), Joe Mo-town (jocchio123@optonline.net), this is 2008 !!! (jocchio123@optonline.net), joeMorristown (joeo@all-protitle.com), and joeO (joeo@all-protitle.com) all posting from the EXACT same IP address (67.83.27.40). I mean, really – have you never heard of a proxy server? If you’re going to shill for a company, at least TRY to pretend that you’re not doing it so blatantly.
Hey Patrick Welsh! If you’re paying Joseph Occhiogrosso any money at all, I’d recommend putting a stop payment on the check ASAP!
Besides people, would you really want to spend money with someone that looks like this? In my humble opinion, the guy looks like a used car salesman. And a bad one at that. Come on, Joseph Occhiogrosso – why would you post to a blog where everyone and anyone could see where you “work”. Which, if anyone’s curious, is at:
Courthouse Plaza
60 Washington Street – Suite 101
Morristown, NJ 07960
Phone: 973-292-1212
Fax: 973-292-1919
Cell: 201-286-3387
If anyone who reads this blog disagrees with anything that Joseph Occhiogrosso has said in any of his various monikers, why not give him a call and let him know how you feel. Please do not harass him in any way, shape, or form, as I’m quite certain he is a VERY busy individual. After all, Joseph Occhiogrosso *is* the president of All-Pro Title and I’m quite certain that they’re constantly swamped with all sorts of Title requests, Pro requests, and probably even some All requests.
Incidentally Joe, claiming that either myself or my readers are “clueless” can be construed as a verbal attack and quite possibly defamatory. I’m pretty sure that the way you’re using Cablevision’s internet service violates their AUP. Specifically:
“Transmission or distribution of any material in violation of any applicable law or regulation is prohibited. This includes, without limitation, material protected by copyright, trademark, trade secret, or other intellectual property right used without proper authorization, and material that is obscene, defamatory, constitutes an illegal threat”
and
“use of the Service to impersonate a person or entity is not permitted”
I’d certainly say that calling my users names is defamatory, promoting STE is obscene, and posting under no less than 8 different names/email addresses is “impersonat[ing] a person or entity”.
Please feel free to look it up yourself here.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Wow, now that was nice! I didn’t think posting my office address was allowed!
Thanks for the assistance. See all you NJ/NY STE people at the meetings this week at my office. Tour call starts at 8pm sharp.
FYI, I sometimes blog from my phone and I can’t log in so its “anonymous.” Sometimes I blog from home at my optonline account. I have nothing to hide anyway. Truth is I made my $42,000 in less than 4 months, and I never even heard of STE before the end of May.
I will take your terrible breach of security in what everyone thought was a private blogging forum, as a desperate attempt to simply give up on fighting STE. I guess I made way too much sense and you were losing the battle.
If anyone would be in trouble it would be YOU for exposing my info. But truth is, my contacts know what I’m all about anyway. Have a nice life bashing good-natured people.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Wow, now that was nice! I didn’t think posting my office address was allowed!
Thanks for the assistance. See all you NJ/NY STE people at the meetings this week at my office. Tour call starts at 8pm sharp.
FYI, I sometimes blog from my phone and I can’t log in so its “anonymous.” Sometimes I blog from home at my optonline account. I have nothing to hide anyway. Truth is I made my $42,000 in less than 4 months, and I never even heard of STE before the end of May.
I will take your terrible breach of security in what everyone thought was a private blogging forum, as a desperate attempt to simply give up on fighting STE. I guess I made way too much sense and you were losing the battle.
If anyone would be in trouble it would be YOU for exposing my info. But truth is, my contacts know what I’m all about anyway. Have a nice life bashing good-natured people.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
PA MOM. nice try sticking up for itsme. First off if Itsme meant shop to earth, he would have said that. shop to earn and shop to earth or not the same. Again showing the lack of knowleged of the STE product.
As far as the shop to earth products being overpriced, so what. I’m getting a check for $3500 next month and I HAD to buy $100 worth of Antioxidants and Omega fish oil which cost me $100 minus 20% cash back, so let’s say $80. I could have bought them somewhere else for $50 you said. So it cost me $30 extra and they are direct depositing a check into my account for $3500. I will gladly do this over and over again forever.
Oh and don’t forget about the $5 processing fee. That’s another reason for you to run for the hills.
Most importantly, the STEarth products are all environmentally safe products and products that are meant to make the American people healthier. If you don’t think that there is a major problem with what we are doing to our planet and the amount of illnesses that Americans have over any other country, than you are living under a rock.
Personally, I laugh when I read some of things people who aren’t involved in the company print here.
Sorry to say that this will be my last post here. the nonsense and misinformation from some of you is a joke.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
OMG, thank you Paul for outing Joe. I am so disgusted with this Sybil (I mean Shillbil)impersonating 8 different STE enthusiasts. Shilling for the company is a classic red flag of an illegal pyramid.
Captain Steve-you make some good points. Yes folks shop at Macy’s and may pay top price for a product that they might find cheaper elsewhere. However, Macy’s doesn’t force them to buy anything. Also, if Macy’s products were consistently and significantly higher than other retailers offering the same products, consumers would stop shopping at Macy’s.
You are correct that you always get your cash back regardless if your points are balanced 1/3 to 2/3 on the right and left side. This cash back is insignificant though. Also, the company reserves the right to flush points at any time to stay solvent. This is published in the back office. So be careful. And, the company will wash away all SCORE points if you don’t buy the $100. I copied this from the commission rules–
If Bob does not generate at least $100 in monthly business volume through his website’s link to ShopToEarth before 12:00 midnight EST on the last day of November and every month thereafter, Bob will forfeit all SCORE! Commissions and the points associated with those SCORE! Commissions associated with that month.
You can make money but it is very difficult to stay balanced. You need to continually recruit to balance your left and right which everyone upline and downline is doing. If my left is strong and you are beneath me on my left and you are strengthening your left to balance you just made my left even stronger.
I have a friend who has referred 12 people and her check is over $6000 of which $55 came from cash back. Yes she has received her $55 but needs to get balanced to get her money. Right now she has 265 on the left and only 40 on the right. Even though she has already signed up 12 people she needs to recruit more to put on her right. But her left is getting out of control because several recruits on her left are going like gangbusters. If this continues, it will be very difficult to ever get in balance. The strong keep getting stronger and it will take a major overhaul, time and effort to achieve balance. She has been at this for three months and needs to work even harder now. I don’t know about you, but I have made more than that in one month at my 9 to 5 job.
The check on the internet shows $6000 of potential earnings if all conditions are met.
Just something for readers to consider if they are still pondering STE.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Why wouldn’t it be allowed? It’s on the internet, on your webpage. That means it’s public. Hell, I didn’t even consolidate information to make it easier for other people to find you for whatever reason.
Now, to tackle your assumptions: there was no breach of security, and the fact that you chose to use those words speaks absolute volumes. What exactly is a “private blogging forum”? It’s on the internet, so it’s not private, and it’s a blog – so there’s no forum. Way to go, you’re 1 for 3.
Also, I never “exposed” your info, as much as I’d like to say I did. You published it on your webpage. That makes it public knowledge.
I haven’t given up on fighting STE. Hell, I’ve never fought STE. I just think they’re a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes, to quote a great man.
If you want to bow out of the discussion, be my guest. But please don’t couch it some sort of aggrieved, morally superior, holier-than-thou standpoint. Just…. you know…go away. Or stay, if you like – if for no other reason than entertainment value; you’re like the mongoloid cousin wearing diapers who sits in a corner drooling, not intelligent to do anything useful, but not actually dangerous to anyone, so I’ll allow you to stay.
September 30th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
PA MOM,
You are making this stuff up. Your friend does not have a $6000 check sitting there that she can’t get because she is not balanced. Just lies or you just don’t understand how it works. Maybe I’m being too hard on you and you really don’t understand this.
Here are the facts. You get 200 points for anyone under you, whether you or someone else signed them up. A SCORE is 4800 total points with at least 1/3, (4800/3= 1600)coming from one of the two legs.
So her left leg being her strong leg with 265 people means that if she had nobody or zero points in her right, she would not make a dime. she would have 53,000 points in the left leg, so every time she had 8 new people under her right leg(8×200pts=1600), she would score and get $550 plus a $50 gas bonus. Now they take 53,000-3200 leaving 49,800 in the left leg and they take the 1600 off the right, leaving zero. now you go again and every time you get to 1600 on the right, you SCORE again and again.
So if your friend has earned $6000, they are absolutely not holding her check. You don’t need to be balanced 1/3, 2/3 based on the 265. you need to be balance 1/3, 2/3 based on the 4800 points in order to keep scoring. I hope that makes sense for you now.
September 30th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Just realized that I’m wasted valuable time with this blogging stuff.
Bottom line is that you either understand it and want to be part of it or you don’t. But try to understand it first. Caio All.
September 30th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Paul. CALL ME ASAP – I WANT TO MEET WITH YOU!
you wrote:
“you’re like the mongoloid cousin wearing diapers who sits in a corner drooling, not intelligent to do anything useful”
I’d like to introduce you to my best friend’s 8 year old son – who was born with Down’s Syndrome. Then I’d like you to meet his dad. Maybe the three of us should go for a nice walk to discuss! You’re a complete asshole!
You have my cell # !
Call me now.
September 30th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Wow. You just called your best friend’s kid a mongoloid, and I’M the asshole?
Tell me, are the unicorns friendly in your world?
September 30th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Hey hey – I was just informed that the term “mongoloid” used to refer to people with Down syndrome. I wasn’t aware (I swear!) of that meaning. I was merely stating that you were severely mentally deficient.
I would NEVER knowingly insult anyone with Down syndrome by comparing them to you and for that, I truly apologize.
September 30th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Wow, wow, wow. So Paul, this guy Joe was posting as if he were someone different everytime? Making different income claims? Is that correct???
September 30th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
hey PA mom
Thanks for the response. My mentioning Macys is because people will shop there no matter the price because it is Macys, and Macys knows that. With few exceptions, when I go there, the merchandise is the same as many other lower priced department stores. I don’t think we disagree there.
I agree with the terms of STE. They leave it open but if you read all the others and even read the terms that distributors have for their jobbers or sales people, they all read the same. Companies just do that and we get stuck with it. The choice.. you stay or you go. Everyone that signs up is told to read the commission rules right away and understand them. It’s their choice not to. So far, there have been no problems that I have found.
About your friend staynig balanced, it can get out of control but she not need to recruit to correct it, her downline does… the same way a sales manager for any commission sales organization gets his pay.. by his downline selling more or referring more sales people. Payment is only held if you do not do the $100 per month or you don’t have two people under you. That is the same for all the companies, not just STE. It is required by the government to meet the requirements of a Legitimate business model. Whether one likes that model is up to them, but it is what is required. So the balance is only to meet the 200/400; 400/800; 800/1600 and 1600/3200 point count. The balance is not a total of all the points devided by 3. It took me until I scored the first time to understand that. I totally agree, it takes a little work but what company doesn’t. The company is new. I’ve met many with acceptable checks and some that I can’t believe but they are true. I’ve also met those that sit back and wait for something to happen for them with no effort. I don’t know about you but I’ve never seen that succeed in your own business or at work.
I think one reason for the posting of the checks (and that amount is the total since starting, not just that month) and how many people are below them is to keep people honest.. or as honest as they can be. The biggest problem I found back a couple of decades ago when I was approached over and over for Amway is that people continuely lie about how much they have made, how many people are downline from them. Unless they are messing with someone elses checks, I have found mine to be true, and my friends to be true.
Some people will definitely make more at their day job… but for the person that is working two jobs to keep their head above water, it might.. and I say might, work for them. They can be home with family and work from their computer. That, in itself, can be a great asset. For many of those, if they can earn their money back within the month and bring in money up and above the $80 they spend at earth, that is a big help. They don’t need to make large amounts, but the electric bill might be nice. Once they have made their money back, they cannot lose any money.
Will it collapse as the ney sayers would like it to… Maybe, Maybe not. As the company grows and trys to make itself better and more understood, you might find it more main stream. If not, the losses are not great like those MLM that require $250 in purchases, large membership requirements and increased inventory that no one wants to buy.
Your points on the FTC are well taken since they come from them. Before joining I read the stuff and checked every states attorney generals office, BBB, the FTC and couldn’t find any complaints. As I said before, with the internet, these things come to light very quickly, especially with the growth that they have had… 8117 on July 1, over 46,000 tonight. The government will be on it very quickly.
For me, you have been informative.. the rest here has, to say the least, been entertaining.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:13 pm
To all, I’m concerned whenever I see a company that has the bulk of its money coming from recruiting and not through the actual selling of products. My brother was in burn lounge, they are gone now, and one of my best friends is in a company called YTB and now they are being sued for 25 million by the attorney generals office and they are being labeled as an illegal pyramid scheme. The reason this is happening is because in both cases the people were making the bulk of their money off of recruiting and not the sales of the actual products the way they were supposed to be. Now I know that many people make it a career to jump from different MLM’s and network marketing companies when new opportunities emerge, and they usually make a lot of money. I have no problem with that at all. I’m sure that in both burn lounge and YTB there were people that most likely made fortunes, again, I have no problem with that. It’s the people who are new to the industry, like my friend Derek that don’t understand how this business works and I know for him when he first told me about STE and that many of his family and friends joined and they did so because they trust him, I knew immediately that he told me that because that is important to him, others may not care about that at all. So I know for him that if something negatively were to happen with STE, it would be more likely to really have an impact on him. I know that there are probably many other people like Derek that feel the same. People need to be informed of both the positives and the negatives to truly make an educated decision on how to move forward. I know that there are no guarantees in life, but I think that people should be well informed. The first two MLM’s that I was involved in as a teen were gone in a matter of 3 years. After this happened to me twice I had a bad taste in my mouth and thought that all companies in the MLM/Network Marketing were bad and there were more people that agreed with me than not. I’m grateful to the gentleman who is now a great friend for educating me on this industry and who persistently followed up with me. He changed my life. It’s the companies like Burn Lounge and many others that have had the same or similar issues that hurt all of us in this industry and to be quite honest, the last thing that I want to do is be one of the people that brings negative attention to this industry because inevitably it hurts us all. When I meet with potential prospects, I educate them on our industry, before I ever talk to them about what I actually do. If the value is not there for the prospect they will shut you off. But the fact that many people have negative information and have even know people to get hurt in different companies has to be addressed because it is an issue for many people. I honestly hope that STE does succeed and does become a power house in our industry because the more people that succeed, the more money can be made for all of us. So let me now apologize to you and everyone else on this blog for coming across as negative. I’m just concerned that the pay structure may bring issues in the future. I have taken my web address off of my profile as I did not know that it could be viewed publicly, and again, it was not my intention for anyone to ask what I was doing. Wish you the best.
-Rob
October 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Captain Steve,
You seem to be very well informed and realistic. Maybe you can explain the upline points flow which seem to go on ad infinitum with STE and I don’t see how this can be as the levels grow deeper and deeper. Specifically, most MLMs limit the upline points to a definitive number of legs (e.g. five). For early investors, they are very high on the tree and for every new recruit, they get 200 points (approximately $20).
Herein lies my question. Let’s say I joined in March, my right leg is 25 deep and a new recruit is added to the bottom at $448. $100 goes to the person who actually recruited teh newbie. That leaves $348. Now 200 points ($20) goes to 25 people upline which equals $500 but STE only has $348. How is this possible? Obviously the problem only gets worse as the legs become deeper and deeper. Someone in my town did join in March and he currently has 9200 recruits on the left and 3000 recruits on the right. So, his legs are getting very deep already.
I understand that the points flowing upline also apply to the cash back program. Each affiliate only rebates a finite amount of money. Let’s say on $100 it is $20 of which 10 % goes to the purchaser. That leaves STE with $10. Each upline person receives 10 pts or $1 from the shopping. Again, if the legs are 25 deep, STE would need to pay out $25 yet only has $10 from the affiliate rebate.
If I understand the model, the company will be unable to fund its investors which is a classic example of a Ponzi scheme where the new recruits money is used to pay previous investors. The whole thing explodes when there are too many investors and not enough newbies.
I must be missing something and thanks for your help.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:20 pm
I have seen the bank statements of poeple who have received a lot of money from Shoptoearn.net. I have seen the money being transferred from Shoptoearn.net to the brokers accounts. I know this business is real and a lot of poeple are making a lot of money.
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
I stumbled upon something interesting. I found the STE website of someone who looks like he got in early since his shopping records date back to 10/06. He has referred 29 people in two years (4 are still pending meaning they haven’t paid) and he has 37,992 people on his right and only 89 on his left. It proves how easy it is to get out of balance and how difficult it is to recover. In two years, his check state $9266.92 and $100.36 came from cash back or approximately 1 %. It proves that you make your money in recruiting IF you can stay balanced. This is all open for anyone to view. The web site is
shoptoearn.net/oc
Click on the picture in the lower left corner. Inside you can click on My Check, My Shopping, My Referrals and How Many. The link below takes you to How Many to prove I am not making this up.
http://www.shoptoearn.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/How_Many_RSP.html?sid=3stGwB1@a58eCAM-54108580355.aa
Play with people’s names and you can get to so many Web sites. Another person’s check shows $1161.35 of which $16.35 came from the mandatory purchase of ShopToEarth products beginning in Sept 08. Prior to that, this person has not used the portal for online shopping but to make money of recruits. It is so obvious. Here is that link and again click on the picture in the lower left corner.
shoptoearn.net/mary
Then there’s Joe whose check shows $456.64 and he has made $16.64 in shopping.
shoptoearn.net/joe
Now Tom has been in business since March 08 and he his check shows $27,647.60 yet only $268.10 came from his shopping on the portal. Again about 1 %. He is quickly getting out of balance though. Check his How Many.
shoptoearn.net/tom
Is anyone seeing a pattern here? It’s all about recruiting until the money to pay upline blows up or the FTC steps in. Play with names an see what you find.
October 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Of course this is a scam, and of course everybody that is involved in this scam is going to try to protect their own dumb asses. Its human nature. Here is my advice: If you haven’t already been duped in to becoming a block of this pyramid which is destined to fall, don’t let it happen to you. If you have already been duped, stick to your guns until the end, which is going to be pretty soon. If you change your mind now, you will definitely look stupider then you already do by joining. Even if you do make money, is the right way to make money off of tricking someone else? If the answer is yes, then go ahead and do it. The devil definitely beat the angel in your case.
October 2nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
PA Mom, GREAT research! I have been saying all along that this is a classic example of a true pyramid scheme according to the FTC. I know that it is natural for people to defend what they are doing, because they are taking what people are saying personally, they are not looking at the facts. People think that if you put down the company, that you are putting them down. My friend who joined knows NOTHING about this industry, I do, so I advise him based on facts and its up to him to take into consideration what I tell him. The folks on this blog have to look at the facts, PERIOD! If they did they would know that what people like yourself are saying is true and factual. Again, GREAT JOB!
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Even Abe Lincoln knew that you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. STE has bottled up new Snake Oil, only since people are afraid of the unknown, they have put a familiar label on it ( Macys, Home Depot, etc.), and the masses are lapping it up, even if it isn’t good for them. Hopefully soon, some one will defang the snake because from reading these blogs, this company is treading water, along with all these Broker’s with unbalanced legs on thier downline. It’s hard to rest when you are immersed in the swim, a senseless effort to keep the unexpected from happening.
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:48 pm
How can this ladys check be over $200,000 on 6 months with 35 referrals please explain. Many of the referrals have checks of $100 or less. Take a look http://www.shoptoearn.net/tami
I think it is a scam and the check is fake. opinions
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:12 pm
PA Mom,
Sorry for the delay in responding. Regretfully, working the job I do leaves little time to get online like I would like to.
Your point is extremely well taken and the question excellent. One that I asked a dozen times before finding out more details while trying to shoot holes in the model. I would rather do that research then just start shooting like many have done and then go, in the old Saturday Night Live style “Never Mind”. I also want to thank you for bringing up the abiliy to see what people are doing. Although I know that you are using it to point out the negative, which is understandable, you are also pointing out that the company strives to keep everything in the open so website owners, business builders and brokers (the three classifications of membership) cannot lie to people about how much they have made or how many people are below them. I like that because in my past, I’ve had people lie to me to get me to join something just to find out the truth later. Also, it points out that even though that first person, who joined during the time when the website hadn’t even been developed yet, it just got released in March 2008, didn’t work on building his business. He sat back and just let it run. Also, in a real pyramid, that model would have never happened because there would be no one under him except those that he signed up and the ones that they signed up. I’m sure you’ll find mine out there… it isn’t hard.
This is not a get rich business.. anyone who thinks it is needs to head over to Monavie for somewhere.
Lets get to the basics of the business the way I’m seeing it. Every business that uses especially commissioned sales people could be considered a pyramid. In the business I was in prior to selling it, we paid up to $1,000 referral fees to employees and others for referring computer programmers to our company. Banks have used referrals to boost their business, same with car dealerships and on and on so the business of referrals is not new. Even the Harvard business school has classes on and written reports on Multilevel Marketing stating their models and how they successfully work. There are good ones and bad ones… There are good car dealers and bad ones… that should really be the focus of anyone attacking scams.. There, innocent people who haven’t any clue are scammed out of huge amounts of money via hidden charges and dealer prep fees on a daily basis. Now that is a scam! For those that have decided to spend the time to really understand STE, rather then just jumping on the MLM bashing wagon, you might find a couple of things. The first is that I believe that the principals are trying hard to make it a great honest business. They are not perfect, they admit that. They have stumbled, they admit that. They are making corrections on a daily basis when they find things that they feel are not right and everyone of those items benefit the members. An example of that was this week when they canceled some things that would have caused people to lose their points and bonus’. So, it does take time to correctly build a business but you have to start somewhere.
As you know the biggest complaint is the $100 per month. I think one of two misunderstood areas. It is a requirement after 2 complete months of membership, whether you spend it or others buy through the site. The people starting, say, today, don’t have to pay that until the end of December. Maybe outsiders or family will buy through the site, maybe they won’t. If you are not happy with the amount of your earnings at that point, don’ pay. You don’t get kicked out, you lose your points and bonus’ for that month and if you weren’t making it, who cares. You never lose the cash back from any purchases you have made, period. Check out the Monavies and others that have minimums, which, by the way, is a requirement of the govenment, not the MLM’s. Some of them are outrageous.
Concerning down line. Remember, being out of balance has nothing to do with the number of people you have, it has to do with the points and that only deals with the ability to get the next level of Score. It is not 2/3,1/3 of the total points. Quick Example… a gentleman by the name of John.. a builder in Weston Florida. He has some 1,000,000 (yes that is with an ‘M’), on one side. He is out of balance for points but he scores every time his weak side hits the minimums of 200/400/800/1600. he never loses those points and although he doesn’t make the money he would being balanced, he is definitely not losing. I’m afraid that this is the most misunderstood part of the program that took me 3 weeks to understand, now it seems like a ‘I could have had a V-8 moment’. This is what is happening with the people you point out. STE, you’ll find is the only company that has the trickle down effect which is why a person many levels below can earn more then the people above them. Example, Mr J, signed up Ms. B (ok, i’m changing the names but they are real people) 6 days after he signed up so she is in his downline. She has 6 more referrals and yet her income is now almost 2 times what his is. It is a business, he didn’t manage his as well and it cost him some money. STE is only on a two down system so the lines have to fall down to the people below. Those above provide people to those below benefitting them. My downline, which many of them have only gotten 1 person actually have 28 people below them. That benefits them tremendously. As soon as they get their second person, they will benefit from the upline. So, some people will make more or less then others and many downline will make more then those above them. That is not different then commissioned sales organizations where a saleman/woman makes more then their manager.
Concerning the ability to run out of money. It is easy to look at the simple numbers. People sign up.. the money gets distributed. Don’t have enough money to distribute all the way up the line.
First, not all the up line will be qualified to receive money so no matter how high it goes, only a certain amount of people will receive that money. Your example shows that. The point balance also controls the amount of money distributed. This is not a free ride for people, they need to do their jobs in running their business. Also, the company does have alternate income streams and in the future will increase those streams to meet the requirements of the lines and the model will change accordingly, just like all companies do. I now know some very well to do people, including the one that signed me up, that are now invoived as brokers who have spent a lot of time with their accountants, lawyers and meeting with the principal’s to feel ensured that the company can grow properly. They have signed up and are building their business.
Now, lets get to what I think is the heart of the income situation. When I had my computer consulting company, I had an average of 75 employees. I used the very reputable company Paychex to do my payroll. Because of my size and the size of my payrolls, I had a chance to meet with high level managers many times. I had to ask one.. How the hell do you make money? They definitely did not charge me enough to cover the expenses (sound familiar?) He looked at me in the eye and said ‘you know the money that we withdraw from your checking account each pay period for payroll, social security, withholding and medicare? When do you think we are actaully required to pay that money out? The lightbulb went on. They float that money for the time period that they have it until they pay it to my employees and the federal government. So think about it. Even though you mention the small amounts of personal shopping commissions that are paid, multiply that by some 47,000 now and more later, memberships that are paid, other income streams and they receive that money first and then pay those amounts to us on the 21st of the month. An excellent business model by all aspects, used by every major, and not so major, companie in the world.
So in your questions, the answer would lay in the area of income based on basic business models used by prosperous companies.
I can definitely see you reason for the comparisons of shopping to income and can definitey agree with the assumptions. But you didn’t add in the flow of points through the system for those incomes. Your right, there are referring points worked in there but as the down line increases the shopping points increase dramatically. But I will agree, the referring part of the business is a big part, but so is it in many businesses out there and all Network Marketing and MLM companies and that is totally legal and a necessary part of the business. A car dealership depends on the referring business and the salesmen referring new salesmen. Many can make more money referring then actual sales. When a car is sold, the dealer is the one that makes the ‘big’ bucks, not the downline. Also, no matter where you are in the downline (org chart) if you sit on your butt and don’t produce or work, you’ll fail and be fired so your income, even for the admin asst, is based on their ability to perform.
I would just ask to do the comparing of all business models, not just MLM’s.
I’ve looked at the two businesses mentioned above and cannot find any Correlations between them and STE. Their business models were totally different and deserved to have the problems that they are having.
October 4th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Does anyone know how long it takes to get a refund from Shoptoearn if you cancel within the 14 days cancelation period?
October 5th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Hey Paul,
I’ve tried to leave a couple messages on here and they’ve been omitted? I’m wondering if I violated any rules and if so, I’m not sure what I did. Again, if I did I certainly apologize as that was certainly not my intention. I support your stance on this ridiculous “pyramid” type company.
October 5th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
on shop to earn you’ll make more of your money out of shop to earth products than by recruiting. so this is not only about recruiting. you’re required to spend $100 in shop to earth products a month in order to get your points for that month. and most of their shop to earth products are 10 to 30% cash back. say you bought $100 worth and got 10% cash back thats $10 dollars you get back and 10 points, because every dollar you get back = 1 point. and those 10 points goes to everyone thats above you. say you have 1000 people below you and they each spend $100 and got 10%cash back on shop to earth for the month. thats 10 points x 1000 people = 10,000 points that you get. wich is $1145 that you get just by the shop to earth purchases. so to all you haters, don’t say that this is just about recruiting unless you have substantial proof. 1000s are joining a day soon millions.youll see, soon people are just gonna shop from this site.
October 5th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
pt:
you’re high, insane, or getting paid to spew nonsense. Even the people who are making big bucks are saying that it’s from recruiting, not sales. And “soon people are just gonna shop from this site”? You’re making it too damned easy, you really are.
Edit:
I show that there are 4 posts (not including the one I’m replying to) that came from your IP. Do you not see them?
October 5th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
paul:
you’re the one spewing nonsense by sayng that im high and insane when you din’t give me any substantial proof that this is just about recruiting.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I believe that what PT and Paul are both saying is right. Yes, you can make more money by shopping at Shop to Earth then Shop to Earn.. Shop to Earth was their original concept and added Shop to Earn. Yes, there is more money to be made by referring. What helps STE here is that if the referring side eventually slows down, then there is still income generated by Shop to Earn.
Concerning the refunding.. I started asking around because it is such a great question and concern and it takes a little time because the process, just like returing merchandise to a webbased store, takes time. If the process is followed as they ask, it happens by the next pay period. At one point 8 people signed up and 6 quit within the time period. One has their return, he paid by check.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Pt- are you for real? Make your money on ShopToEarth? No, you recoup some of the the money that you spent too much for in the first place and still end up paying more than if you shop at another site. Check out my comparison shopping posted earlier detailing product after product that is overly inflated. Here’s one example:
Myvitanet.com Aloha Bay Ocean Mist Candle 21. oz
$12.35
ShopToEarth Aloha Bay Ocean Mist Candle 21. oz
$21.99 – $3.30 cash back = $18.69
$6.34 (MORE)
So you “make” $3.30 in cash back but you just spent $6.34 more than if you purchased the candle from Myvitanet.com. This is such great propaganda (LOL).
You are not making any money off ShopToEarth! The cash back merely offsets some of ridiculous markup. STE is making the money off your purchases since you are paying way too much in the first place. Have I got a deal for you–spend $100 at my store and I will gladly refund $20 for your loyalty minus $5 for the direct deposit fee. So, it is only costing you $85. But I won’t tell you that you can buy these same products for $50 at other stores. Shhhh, that’s our little secret. Thanks for the extra $35 per month!!!
(Boy things have been a little quiet since Joe Occ and his seven alter egos aren’t blogging/shilling here anymore.)
October 6th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
mom:
you’re telling me that you don’t make any money on shop to earth? now are you for real? do your math? say you bought the candle for $21.99 and got the $3.30 cash back, you are getting 3 points and everyone above you is benefiting from it because they are getting 3 points also. the cash back points from shop to earth is where everybody is benefitting from because its a hire percentage of cash back. the products of shop to earth are overpriced due to the fact that everyone above is getting those cashback points. nobody would mind spending $100 a month when you got points coming in from the refferals, shop to earth and shop to earn. heres the kicker, you don’t have to spend $100 a month unless you want to get those points for the month. nobody looses here, even if you don’t make points you’re still beneffiting from shop to earn because you’re getting cash back at your favorite store and points. you benefit a lot from shop to earth because even if you don’t have any refferals coming in for that month you’re still beneffiting from the cash back points off shop to earth.
mom: what you wrote above was a total waste of time because you only gave me a lil piece of the picture. look at the entire picture, shop to earn got this down into a science.
October 6th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Shop to Earth does sell at the suggested retail price so those who want to purchase at a lower price can definitely find it elsewhere so on an individual basis that is spot on. Many stores actually do sell products at SRP and people buy them, usually because of the store and others search out the best deal, as seen above. That is the retail business. This is a business, not a personal discount store so the total retail cycle has to be taken into account.
To be fair in the example, the $5.00 reflects the total deposit so you would have to divide that into the total deposit in order to come up with the amount that actually reflected that. Just like any retail business, they put products on the shelves to sell, not looking at the individual profits but the overall store profits. That is why there are lost leaders. So, in the case of STE, it seems that you would have to take the month and look at the bottom line. Depending on how many people are below you, you benefit from their purchases also by the points developed. So you bought this product at SRP and you have 500 people below you that have purchased items somewhere leaving you points. At the end of the month that purchase may now have been free or probably better.
October 6th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Science. We’ll see what kind of a science STE has when there aren’t enough recruits to pay off all of the upline points. Points cannot flow upline ad infinitum. It will be SCORE FLUSH (see previous STE statement on the right to FLUSH , not DEDUCT) and away go your points right down the toilet. So aptly named!! That’s if they don’t close up shop and vanish into the night when they see this about to happen. This way STE will avoid the mob of angry investors with lit torches walking toward that obscure PO Box in Florida.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
There are definite maybes in every business. When I worked for a major company selling Computer Consulting services, our commission structure changed annually. It does for every company. Sometimes good, sometimes not. This is the option of every company. So if points start to Flush, at what point does that happen? It is so easy to just say things without backing them up with some sort of reasoning. Understanding the structure of points in this, and other companies helps to understand how the system continues to work. Do you just say ‘Flush everything and start over?”… doubtful.
Do you Flush points for those who have decided that they are just expecting a free handout, which is what I find most people who are looking for quick money do.
See, instead of looking at the possibility that the structure could change to, say, limit the upline point flow, the choice seems to be… flush everybody, everything just for the heck of it. All companies change structure at some point.
You might actually find that the business base expands creating more opportunity. They have done that already with one very major retail company that doesn’t have a affiliate program except with STE, and will more in the near future. I know the thought that a company such as this could never survive is paramount in many peoples minds but what if they work hard at growing it… Time will tell either way.
Just a note, doing just a little research.. even a smigin’ would show that Shop 2 Earn is a florida corporation that just renewed in March, 2008.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
ok now why do you think its required to spend $100 on shop to earth a month in order to get points? because thats how ste makes their money even if the points flow upline ad infinitum. how can that be? answer: all their shop to earth products are bought at wholesale prices. their company survives due to the required $100 a month by each person on shop to earth. before judging a company wrong, do a complete investigation first. i listened to their tour call yesterday and it was sayd that their expecting 100,000 people joined by the end of this year and it was sayd that their site can generate up to one million people.
October 7th, 2008 at 12:37 am
PA mom:
by reading at your nonsense through out this page, im assuming that A. you’re a lawyer getting payed big bucks to try to put this company out of business. or B. you own or works for a business yourself and is scared that ste could put you out of business so you are looking at every possible way that could go wrong with ste. well either way good luck with that
October 7th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Hey PT and Steve:
Great job explaining STE. Every day I wake up and there are more people in my STE business followed by “thank yous” for getting them involved. Of course 95% of these people I don’t even know – they are friends of friends. I find this STE business fun and inspiring. I’ve seen single moms make more money in 3 months than they make in a year. How can this be a bad thing?
I think we all know that STE management team has dotted their I’s and crossed their T’s enough to know that they are in compliance and will be solvent for decades.
BTW, the flush system doesn’t even affect you if your balanced. I flush right now almost every time I score with 2,400 points on each side. Flushing is not costing me any money.
Thanks for taking the time to defend STE. It may help a few people take a closer look.
As for thr naysayers, if you spent half this time learning how and why STE is the MLM perfected, you’d be rich already!
Joe
October 7th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Thanks Joe,
My web address should be pretty easy for you to find.
Whether others join or not is not my point in being in this blog. My point was to at least bring out the correct information so that people can make up their own mind with facts rather then people yelling at them that they are stupid, ignorant and that this is a scam with no facts or even worse, incorrect information backing it up. It is not for everybody, but it is for others who are scared off by comments.
At the beginning of this blog, the purpose was “Jul172008 “Shop To Earn” are a bunch of litigious bastards” Lawyers are not my favorite people and to me their job is to overreact but to blast a company because the lawyers came on tough. All bloggers should take the responsiblity to delete all blog entries that are found to be factually incorrect. There were many here. Some questionable and some were totally opinions. Those were fine but once something is corrected it should be removed as most people will only read the top 10 entries or so.
Many here brought up great questions and made great points (Did he say ‘points’?) and I’ve learned from them.
I’m done here so thanks to those who gave me new information and to Paul who opened this up, however sarcastically.. but then again it is “You All Disgust Me” so what else would you expect. I think he is next in line for the Jerry Springer show or his own radio talk show.
For those exploring STE, keep an open mind. Really look into it and if it works for you.. go for it. For me, it has worked. For the people on my team, it has worked. It is not going anywhere… even using the opinion stated by many… when you can’t recruit anymore people… well, with now only 50,000 members.. we have several years to go, at least. The Harvard Business School said in their study of MLM’s/Network Marketing companies, if you get in the top 60,000, it is a chance of a lifetime. Whether it is STE or another, if you ever get a chance to join in that top 60,000… jump and jump big. STE is at 50,000 as of last night, Since the real startup in July when the number was 8117 with a huge amount of high earning professionals who cannot risk their reputations in a scam.
October 7th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
This is the very best blog website on the web. At least its a true open forum for STE, unlike a certain other person who blogs poetic on two other sites under the guise that SHE is saving stupid people from wasting their $448. Whenever a correction or a valid point is made, it doesn’t get printed. SHE is all about her self-promotion to her people that drink HER Kool Aid- oh and selling books. “I say this and I says that” SHE says “you’re welcome” -pathetic really. I take great pleasure knowing that I was instrumental in submitting such consistent common sense and facts that she omitted my posts and shut down her STE forum! I showed her the money I made – and she didn’t like that either.
Let’s face it, only time will tell if STE passes the test of time. MLM’s are not for everyone. I was sooooo against this just 5 months ago. I was running for the hills. I tried Amway 15 years ago for 1-2 months and then I failed at Primerica back in 1996. I wish I had the fortitude to keep up with Primerica though – did you know that Primerica grew so large it bought Travelers, Salomon Brothers, Smith Barney and then merged with Citibank. Kind of neat knowing that one of the largest US companies ever is owned by an MLM. Some Primerica friends of mine retired at age 35. Check the facts! just google Primerica. Needless to say, SHE didn’t like these facts. She posted them for a day or so and then took them down.
Shop to Earn is an amazing opportunity folks. Times have changed, its 2008 – the internet is a household mega tool, and we all know that MLM’s CAN work extremely well. Maybe this is one of them? Stay home, save, gas, time, money and the planet – can you have any better timing? While my 401k gets lower eveyday, I have made almost $50,000 in less than 5 months and the future looks great. This will increase every month and I’m on track for $150,000 a month by 2010 – if it takes me until 2011 I will just have to live with that.
I have scores of people thanking me for the introduction. Those that aren’t selling web-portals for commissions and growing their base like me are not dismayed – since they have a great on-line shopping mall returning 3-30% cash back. There is no ‘buyer’s remorse’ with Shop to Earn because everyone can get cash back from the webportal they bought AND they can make a business out of it if they so choose. If they don’t it’s not so bad. If they shop on line anyway, they will be just fine. BTW, no need to even spend $100/month on the earth side unles you are scoring the $600 commissions – but you STILL get $100 for referring someone a site. Pretty neat . . . and compliant with all the rules.
Yeah there supposedly are on-line shopping malls for less costs, but do they give you $100 for referring a friend their own web-portal? Please note – you get paid a commission for selling a web-portal product on the STE system. Kind of like selling shares in a co-op or a Personal Seat License at a Football Stadium. You don’t actually own the plastic seat, but you do own the rights and that is indeed a commodity. This is not recruiting, this is selling something of value. This is the legal view of the STE program and the main reason why STE has grown to north of 50,000 people in 6 months. And will have well over 100,000 by X-mas.
I have dozens of NJ/NY area attorneys and CPAs involved – some even have weekly meetings at their offices. Would these “professional types” be willing to risk their reputations and licenses without doing their due dilligence? I think not.
So bash away, I know you negative people like to hang together. Truth is, MLM’s are not easy money – they are very challenging, you’d rather sit in your cubicle. Its safe and easy and mainstream. God bless people like you. Even though the demand will reduce every year, we will need you for at least another century or so.
Me, I will sit back and watch my downline add 100+ people a week like it has the last few weeks. I missed out on Primerica because I listened to too many “common sense” people.
It will NOT happen again. I have met a few people that are making over $100k a month after just 6-7 months. Me and my large group of friends will soon be there too!
Cheers!
October 8th, 2008 at 1:37 am
when i started ste i was so anxious to start makin money until i stumbled into this verse.
A faithful man will be richly blessed, but one eager to get rich will not go unpunished.(proverbs 28:20)
beware people God has the power to give wealth and take it away. obey the Lord and we’ll truilly be blessed.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Welcome back JoeO. You just couldn’t stay away. I really thought Elvis and his entourage had left the building. When you call for reservations, do you make them for a party of eight for me, myself and six Is? How do you focus with all of the voices hammering away in your head?
I am sorry but I couldn’t resist. This is just too funny. Thanks for making my day.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Why do you post under several names Joe “0″?
October 8th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Here’s some follow up research–Scott Vento posted back on Aug. 11th stating that he made his money back and yes he was telling the truth. Scott has made $559.35 of which $500 plus $50 gas money came from recruiting five people (mostly relatives to fork over $448). To date, Scott has only earned $19.35 in cash back. This of course totals $569.35 so I am assuming that he received this money in two different months which would deduct $10 for the direct deposit fee ($5 per month).
The $19.35 cash back wasn’t for shopping on the Internet though. The money came from a ShopToEarn seminar he attended. Scott has made NO money from shopping on the portal only from recruiting. Here’s his link to verify my statements. Just click in the box in the lower left corner then you can check out $My Check, My Referrals, My Shopping, etc.
http://www.shoptoearn.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/home1.html?sid=3stGwB1@aJuJBD6-58108466865.ad
Again, classic smelling pyramid. You make your money from recruiting not from shopping on the portal. Stop with the jibber-jabber. I present the facts, just the facts. And, Joe O, if you still think that your product is the Web site you are peddling, please wake up and smell the coffee the FTC will be delivering. Everyone who purchases a Web site (actually Web page owned by STE) becomes part of the commission structure and are not independent consumers. To be legitimate, 50 % of the sales must come from consumers not involved in the upline/downline scheme. Another way of spelling this out is to say that 50% of sales must come from people who purchase a product and do not benefit monetarily.
More research–here’s someone who joined in July and has made $15.06 from shopping only. Joe O will say that she hasn’t made money because she isn’t working. You are absolutely correct because you make your money by recruiting others into the plan.
http://www.shoptoearn.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/My_Shopping.html?sid=3stGwB1@aJuJBD6-54108176081.fe
Like the previous example, another person has made $15.44 to date because she isn’t recruiting others either. Here’s the link:
http://www.shoptoearn.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/index.html?p_get_webid=deb
It will be very difficult to break even through shopping online. At an average of 5 % cash back, you need to spend $8900 to break even. However, you must then deduct the $5 per month for direct deposit. So, figure on spending $8960 before you make a cent. Not to mention you often have to wait 90 days for a retailer to credit you the cash back and you must save all receipts to see that you eventually get this credit. If you don’t then you need to put in a support ticket with STE and wait while they research it. Seems like a lot of work to break even. Don’t forget the $119 renewal fee. So next year it’s back to spending at least $2,460 to break even.
On the other hand, this fellow has made $4857 from STE. But I am sure you know how by now. Yes recruiting. Only $17 has come through shopping on the STE portal.
http://www.shoptoearn.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/home1.html?sid=3stGwB1@aJuJBD6-26108342481.d7
October 8th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Your writing style got me hooked.
EDITOR NOTE: Hey, thanks for the compliment! This is so weird, because I loved your email address and URL so much, I’ve decided to remove them from this post and keep them for my very own. I promise to love them and pet them and name them George.
October 8th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
mom: youre giving people the wrong information. i bet you’re in denial. first of all pyramids are when you have no product and are just collecting money. i explained how you can make money on shop to earth, and i found out that all of their products are 15 to 30% cash back. thats 15 to 30 points going upline monthly. stop blaming joe “O”, just because he got ran over by a magical unicorn doesn’t make him the way he is, talking about unicorns check out charlie the unicorn on youtube.lol… well thats not my point. all i hear from mom is blah blah blah…. its all about recruiting blah blah blah….. its all about recruiting. wake up you’re in denial those facts in your head is not true. yeah i went to all of those links and guess what only one of them works good job. one more thing, you have to wait 30 to 90 days to get your points on shop to earn but you get your points right away on shop to earth. get your facts straight.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
ignoramous pa mom you really must have NOTHING to do all day! Ok so we all know you are a negatvie soul, you don’t like the shoptoearn concept & idea. Move the %$@* on and let those who do believe work it and make ALL that money……if they choose to. People are making CRAZY money, face it, call it what you may, it is the truth. I can send you to a few websites since your stalking peoples websites & you probably would dribble after seeing how much they have made in 4 months…..GET A LIFE PA MOM do something productive with your time…….diahrrah of the mouth
October 9th, 2008 at 12:57 am
Well, I was done until someone emailed me and said that PA Mom was bringing back partial facts as truths again and apparently speaking for and making decisions for the FTC.
I really don’t understand the problem here. First of all, in 1979 the U.S. Government approved MLM’s as a method of business growing companies like Mary Kaye, Fuller Brush, Primerica and dozens of others. Organizations were started to help keep these types of companies going. The biggest is the Direct Selling Assocation, of which STE is part of and a key member of the Legal Committee. The way you build a multilevel marketing business is by referring new people. The quicker you refer them, the faster your group grows the quicker that you start making money from your products. For a time period when they start, all income is from referring people. Once you grow the leverage changes the other way.
By the way… only one of all the links shown works. Again, real research helps, not selective research as has been chosen.
I know that it is easy to select some poor examples out of the now 51,000+ members of STE but there are also loads of others but they don’t make a good example when you are trying to make a point.
Debs shopping was done between 5/28 and 6/2. She probably stopped being involved at that time. Do you even know the status of the company at that time? They were new. They were still working on getting the tracking computer systems in place. Her number would have been around 2000, which actually would have been 1000 since they started at 1000. Did you think to check to see what her level of membership is? Probably not. That can also reflect on what is shown. Did you check the status’ of the others or just looked for low numbers to throw up on the board. I don’t think they would even post those numbers for public display if they were worried about retribution.
Tracking everything back then was done on poster boards and books to make sure everyone was accounted for.
Many retailers don’t even send out their affiliate numbers for 30 to 60 days, no matter who you are. Some are better.
The one thing that is continous is tracking everything by one level rather then the business model that not only they have, but all the other network marketing, MLM businesses have. Can you imagine if McDonalds tracked everything by the profit on one hamburger? Or if GM’s total sales were judged on one dealer… they would look like they were going broke, and they would be. If you have a sales organization with any kind of down line, the sum of their success is based on the total of their line, not one individual. That line doesn’t start overnight. STE never claims to be a get rich quick business… matter of fact, the company strongly tells people that this is a marathon and it can take time to build. Many people go hog wild and dive in with both feet thus the big numbers that you will see, but everyone knows that they are the few, the proud, the…. wait… wrong commercial.. they are the few, not the norm.
Many STE people have dropped out.. norm for MLM/Network Marketing along with any other commission sales organization. Their turnover is usually about 1500 percent per year. It might be good to go out spend research time on why Lawyers and how they do what they do only for the money or their ego. [Edited by admin - reason: Captain Steve is a tool] If research is going to be fairly done, then you have to point out both sides, the good and the bad, otherwise it is not research. I think the thoughts are in the right place, the process is having a problem. So far, all reseach that you’ve show is not different then every other direct sale, direct marketing, multilevel marketing, network marketing or work at home business opportunities.
good luck with your vendetta… for whatever reason you have decided to start it. I know you’ll keep trying.
October 9th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Boy have I pushed some buttons. Wow. I am having an impact. Thanks for the confidence boost.
Sorry the links didn’t work. Here are all three spelled out:
http://www.shoptoearn.net/jo
http://www.shoptoearn.net/jami
http://www.shoptoearn.net/deb
And not one of you (OMG, pt and Captain Steve) have told me or the American public where 50 % of the sales to independent consumers will be generated. Mary Kaye sold make-up, Fuller sold brushes, and PrimeAmerica sold insurance. These are products people wanted, purchased and received no commission from the company for the purchase. STE is selling spots on the pyramid under the guise of a shopping portal and keeping the earth green. Independent consumers will not purchase from the portal if they are not getting the cash back when they can go elsewhere online to get their cash back for free. Or, they can use a search engine (Amazon, NexTag, PriceGrabber) and get the product cheaper and not have to keep receipts, track and wait for the cash back.
Why are you so mad? Is it because I am right and others are reading this blog and getting the message loud and clear and don’t want their name associated with an illegal scheme even if they can make money?
October 10th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Hey everybody…I just logged on to one of the 3 STE websites I am involved with and see that it has grown again. On Monday 10/6 it had 803 people and this morning I have 834. And I have done absolutely nothing! I haven’t signed any one on in over a month.
Oh, and I also scored 2 more times the last 3 days as well = $1,200 ($550 + $50 gas bonus) PLUS 3 people I referred in my business also scored so I get another $150 (3 x $50). This one website has made more than $18,500 in 4.5 months. And its still in second place to my wife’s website. She has less people but has actually made more money. Her legs are more balanced, why? because you never know when the next superstar will enter your business and run with this. I wonder how many we will have by next Friday???? This is fun stuff.
I don’t understand why so many people keep watching some silly 30 minutes STE presentation and decide to join? Don’t they read these negative blogs from PA Mom etc? Don’t they know that this is all a scam? They must not fully understand that their is a $5 direct depoist fee every month !!!! That’s $60 a year for goodness sake!!!! LOL
I guess all these people are stupid and PA Mom and the others have it all figured out.
Truth is, I can actually start bashing STE everyday on multiple blogs and my web-site WOULD STILL GROW EXPONENTIALLY. People are smarter than you think. They are voting with their dollars and BUYING WEBSITES!!! whether they work them or not is their responsibility not YOURS!
October 10th, 2008 at 9:35 am
So let me get this straight, MLM’s are scams and simply don’t work because most people fail? hmmm like 95% of the people will just not make it huh? And this is proven when you point out a few websites that have show only $15.00 profit/cashback??
Well then, using that logic, why doesn’t the FTC shut down Weight Watchers? and Slim Fast? and Jenny Craig and Nutrisystem? The facts are the same – 95% of the people that join these weight loss programs don’t lose any weight. AND if they do, they put it back on and sometimes even more – which is much worse.
They SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BUY TV COMMERCIALS AND BILLBOARDS! If 95% of these people will just waste their time and money, shouldn’t they be shut down? Isn’t all this just a scam to get them to pay their membership dues and buy their prepared frozen dinners and snack bars? SCAM!!!! If you are overweight and can’t lose weight IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT !!! You’re not lazy or uninspired, you’ve simply been scammed by diet programs that are statistically proven to never work for 95% of the population. So logically you should just give up and don’t try to lose weight and get healthy, right?? – don’t even try!!!
Oh, and by the way, if you happen to find a program that DOES work for you and you actually lost weight and kept it off DO NOT SHARE THIS INFORMATION WITH ANYONE. YOUR FRIENDS WILL HATE YOU FOR IT!!! Because let’s face it, you lost some weight but they probably still won’t. So keep it to yourself! Get thin and healthy and tell no one how you did it.
If my friend was making money with STE and didn’t tell me about it, then he is not a friend.
P.S. sometimes I blog from my cell phone and can’t log in, so it comes from “anonymous” .
October 10th, 2008 at 11:49 am
People,
Almost everyone is making money in this business; you only need to bring 4 people in the business to get the $448.00. Some people are making the money back in one week; a lot of people are making over $50,000.00 every month. Some people are thinking that this business is a pyramids, who cares if the business is a pyramids or not, what really matters is the you can make a lot of legal money very soon. I know this business works and I have seen the money people are getting. This business is not a scam because you can get your investment.
Please join my business a change your life financially.
http://www.shoptoearn.net/AREYOUFREAKINGHIGH?
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Did you really think that I'd let you pimp your STE MLM shit here? Really?]
This is a real business and this is the way pleople will shop in the future
Mario
October 10th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Nice Mario. Don’t state that almost everyone is making money in the business. You joined in June 08 and have made $272.80 to date with $27.80 coming from shopping/cash back. You still haven’t broken evern. You have 2 recruits (at least one of the two is a family member) who you have asked for $448. I see that you have 144 people on your right and only 1 on the left. Boy are you out of balance.
Your family member, Mariel, has made $0. Do you feel bad about that? Yes, some people might be making $50,000 but it is not you or your family members.
October 10th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
PA Mom
FYI
For your information I purchased this site for $200.00 from my coworker in September; I made my investments already and some extra cash.
Mario
October 10th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
people if your not willing to spend the $448 than you’re missing out on a good investment. its like putting your money on a good stock.
October 10th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Sign up or shut up. Who would waste this kind of time bashing something they have no vested interest in? Some of the biggest skeptics have turned into top producers. If you have this kind of time and money, sign up and prove your point.
You can afford to risk all of $448.00 can’t you? Scary stuff though, then you have to “recruit” a whole bunch, or 2 people. I bet you could do it. If you fail, you have validated your point and can continue bashing Shoptoearn with a clear conscience. What have you got to lose?
Otherwise, go enjoy your homes and your paid off cars. Get a life. Save the world a little negativity.
October 11th, 2008 at 5:42 am
Ridiculous.
Did any of the pro STEs stop to wonder why they require a sign up fee of close to $450?
No product, no service, nothing is required in order to rake in $$$ over and above the $450.
Why require such an exorbitant sign up fee?
This pyramid scheme (that’s EXACTLY what it is) is rife and well.
October 11th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Joe “0″,
If your company is so legitimate. Then why do you have to come on here and post under different names? It’s really obvious, scammer!
October 12th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Where can the public get specific and official documentation on the program? I am talking about details on how you get PAID money, not a graphic of a check with funds you cannot access.
Every turn reveals more convoluted stipulations (left/right balance, $100 previous month minimum, “scores”, earth-product minimums, etc, etc, etc…). Where is the documentation on all of this?
Do you have to enter your Social Security number and bank routing codes (required to sign up) before documentation is revealed?
October 12th, 2008 at 2:14 am
The sad reality here is that if Paul would have put 1/4th the effort into ShoptoEarn as a member as he does trying to prove this company to be false he would have made upwards of $50,000. I know a woman who has made over $100k AND SHE HAS RECEIVED HER MONEY. You can say whatever you want to say but she has made her money and she continues to earn whether it’s through recruiting or whatever else. She’s $100k richer. There’s nothing you can say to her. There are only 40,000 members. There’s a lot of room for expansion. MLM’s whether you agree with the models or not have made a lot of millionaires. This particular MLM, if that’s what you want to call it has a very logical model and has the backing of well known and trusted retailers. POINT, BLANK, PERIOD. Continue on with your negativity but you have already heard from several happy STE business owners who have enjoyed their profits. This blog is a big advertiser for the company and I don’t think that was what you intended to do here. So even in this, Paul, you are a failure. Try to get it turned around. Perhaps you should start with your attitude.
October 12th, 2008 at 2:40 am
Wait wait wait. Let’s break this down:
- I have 2 houses, 2 cars, a lovely wife, children that are taken care of and happy, and still have enough to put towards their college education as well as buy a nice new TV just recently.
- You “know a woman”, and that person has made cash by actively participating in what the federal government has deemed to be illegal (MLM).
Also, saying that this blog is a “big advertiser” for STE is simply false. Advertising is designed to attract people to a given store/item/goal with the intent of driving positive attention and business to said entity. When one of your bigger “advertisers” blatantly calls out the company for being a bunch of greedy MLM jackasses AND actually has the words “litigious bastards” in the title AND is a blog named You All Disgust Me….doesn’t that say a lot about the business? Please also note that I have not linked to STE anywhere, and when people do, I am removing those links, or redirecting them to 404s whenever I see them.
You say that there are happy STE business owners who have enjoyed their profits, therefore STE is a legit business. That stance is a fallacy for several reasons:
- They are not business owners. What do they own? A website that’s hosted and controlled by STE? Can they do anything they want with it, or do all the sites look sorta the same, except for a couple of pre-defined customizable areas? Does this sound like ownership?
- Saying that they are enjoying their profits means nothing. What if someone told me I could make lots of money by eating live babies? I wouldn’t do it even though it would make me rich.* And for those of you listening at home, yes, I just equated STE and all of the people who vociferously defend them with eating newborns.
The mere fact that I can be on page 1 of Google with this one little blog entry and no readership indicates that there is a serious problem with this company. On page 1 of Google, I see 5 entries that are definitively anti-STE, 1 that has nothing to do with it, and 3 sites that are pro-STE. It should be noted, however, that all three of the pro-STE sites are sites that STE owns.
And finally, you talk about the effort I put in here. I have put in roughly 30 mins of actual research. By “actual research”, I mean checking websites, checking domain registrars, trying to see who these people really are, etc. 30 mins. That’s it. The rest of it has largely been done by you, my loyal readers, and for that I thank you. Any additional time was really only spent replying which isn’t much at all – I’m a fast typer.
So feel free to hurl all the names you want at me. It amuses me. I’ve been called much worse by much better than you,
Incidentally, if STE is so fantastic, why don’t you take part and sign up? I mean, you mentioned this woman that you know instead of telling me that you yourself are reaping the benefits. Why?
* – ok, ok, maybe ONE. After all, I have bills to pay too. But I’d demand that the child would be a real jerk or something.
October 12th, 2008 at 2:43 am
Oh, and before I forget – can you (or anyone) tell me why the barrier to entry is so high? I mean, $450 is expensive for a little bit of hosting space, which is all you get – and you’re only renting it at that.
October 12th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Again, where is the official documentation on the program? Where are all the rules defined that dictate how points (and such) are earned and how exactly one gets paid actual money?
October 13th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Well now STE investors are eating their own live babies. This was released from STE on Oct 10th due to unscrupulous behavior. Is anyone surprised? Unethical people beget unethical behavior.
It has been brought to our attention that there are short-sighted people in our company who are stealing referrals from people by promising positions that will grow much faster, by offering to pay for enrollment and by promising to pay $100 and $200 if you’ll join their group instead. Much of this unethical conduct has occurred at Company Overviews and some of our ShopToEarn Seminars, whereby top money earners are recruiting others that have already been referred to ShopToEarn.
In order to maintain the long-term viability of the Company, ShopToEarn maintains a Zero-Tolerance Policy to any/all violations of the Business Builder Terms and Policies. While any violation of the Business Builder Terms and Policies can result in immediate termination, we will suspend Business Builders / Brokers for thirty(30) days upon clear evidence of wrongdoing, along with forfeiting their commissions and sending a certified letter to the address on file. Here are some of the violations that have been brought to our immediate attention:
Using the name of ShopToEarn, ShopToEarth, STE, Shop2Earn, and Shop2Earth in any way other than your specific web address ( including on websites and in corp. names ).
Cross-line recruiting (stealing) and promising others to enroll in your business after that person was referred to the Company by somebody other than you.
Bribing others to join your business by saying you’ll pay for them to join your business when you were not the original referrer.
Obtaining multiple positions in the Company using Dummy Corporations / LLCs.
Running advertisements on the web, in newspapers, on the radio, and on TV with specific reference to the Company.
If you know of anyone violating these Terms and Policies, if you’ve been approached by someone who said they have a position for you and will offer you money to join, if you’ve been cross-lined recruited or if you’ve been given money to join, please Login to your Virtual Office and send us a Support Ticket describing the details of your experience.
We need your help to identify these people who are violating our Terms and Policies. Know that the Company will maintain the highest level of confidentiality and that we’ll look favorably on all of you who help us to rid Our Family of those who are not appreciative of this Special Gift that We’ve All Been Given.
With Much Gratitude,
STE
October 13th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
$450 is not bad at all when knowing that your getting points for recruiting and shopping and on top of that your getting $100 every time you reffer.
niles: all that info. is given to you when you sign up and more. you can contact them by email if you have any questions. and they give you all the info. you need about the business. the money is sent directly to your savings or checkings.
October 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
here are their latest updates
Encryption
In Edit Personal Info in your Virtual Office:
A. Your SS# / FED ID# is now encrypted.
B. You Bank Account Info is now hidden from view.
Position Transfer Form
Due to the excessive amount of Support Tickets that we’ve received in the past 30 days regarding unethical behavior, we’ve been advised by counsel to NOT release the Position Transfer Form in its’ entirety; a Deactivated Position will NOT be transferable; an active position will be transferable by the person that owns the active position.
Load Balancer/Server Farm…50K to 1M
The Load Balancer/Server Farm which will effectively and seamlessly facilitate our growth from 50,000 to 1,000,000 reps is in final beta test mode and will be installed throughout the next few weeks.
$My Check
The $My Check displayed on the Representative Home Page will be removed this week; it will still be located in your Virtual Office for your eyes only!
Pending Positions
Effective immediately, a new enrollee in ShopToEarn will have 24 hours from completing Step 1 of the Sign Up Process to complete Step 2 of the Sign Up Process. Failure to complete Step 2 of the Sign Up Process within 24 hours will deem that position as Deactivated.
See How It Works
We will be editing the final slides of the Slideshow Overview in “See How It Works”.
October 13th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Very interesting message from STE. So, they are removing the check and will now be for the investor only.
$My Check
The $My Check displayed on the Representative Home Page will be removed this week; it will still be located in your Virtual Office for your eyes only!
Reason being?? Perhaps…
A. Inducement which is deemed illegal by the FTC.
B. Easy to see that money is made from recruiting and not from shopping online. Points out that this is a recruitment scheme with no viable product. In fact, you can get the product for free at so many other Web sites previously mentioned.
C. Easy to see how many people have not broken even and have made little to no money.
October 13th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
PA Mom,
With all due respect: Do you have anything better to do than accuse this company? You seem to be a part of it or otherwise you wouldn’t have all these emails that are only sent to members.
Wouldn’t your time be better spent on developing your business since you’ve already paid the $448 for it instead of wasting all this time on coming up with all the reasons why this is not a good business?
While you are putting down the company at every chance you get, others are making money.
Money never comes easy, you need to work for it, and this company does not say you will get paid for doing nothing.
The old saying time is money is true, in your case you are truly wasting a lot of money.
Just let go of your resentment and do something useful, for God’s sake!
October 13th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
they’
re probably removing the checks from public display because they display too much they shouldn’t anyway. IT’s no one’s business how much anyone makes, or spends, or what people buy or where they shop unless that person makes it someone elses business to know. It’s a privacy infringement right there that their ‘legal’ moron should have known about right away, but then again, he’s involved with a scam, so I wouldn’t expecvt much from his legal expertise.
Something else ScamToEarn neglects to tell people or lies to people about. all the ‘cash back’ is taxable as income the way they set it up. So when the IRS starts asking questions, all those scammed by this will be crying ‘but I didn’t know, why do I hav eot pay back taxes on it plus penatlies?’
Most morons who fall for these scams don’t declare any of it on taxes.. They;’re dumb enough to fall for a pyramid scam, so it’s only common sense they wouldn’t pay taxes on any of it either.
I’m glad at least a few so far have realized what they have got themselves into.. maybe one day, more people will grow a brain and these scams will be done with finally.
and before people start commenting about what I just said, you can think up all the excuses in the world as to why ScamToEarn and the others are so great, but for once, don’t leave out all the details and facts. You’re not going to sell the program to people here, so you can leave the bull**** sales pitches at home with all the family and friends wyou try to scam into it.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:27 am
itsme: by reading what you wrote you reminded me of someone i worked with, very hard headed individual, very passive, looking at faults to everything. i know how you feel, this world is a nightmare, its not perfect. even our government is a scam we can’t even trust it. if you try to be a lil optimistic, you’ll find that ste has its faults (like everybusiness do) but their not bad at all to join. think of it this way since this business is still a baby, theres a big possibility that people will make good money on this in the future. its a risk people are willing to make since: this years economy sux, big % of people out of jobs, banks going bankrupt. i can go on and on. its becoming survival of the fittest…..people are looking for hope or a way out.. to tell you the truith, i would never tell a friend or family to join if i din’t think they’ll make money on this. i rader be broke than loose a friend or family due to money? in conclusion, i think this is the most legit thing there is, i believe that ste is trying their best at becoming as legal as possible. trust me every single business does what ever they can in order to stay alive.( even if its by breaking a few rules). every wealthy person had broken a few rules in order to become rich. money is evil…. i give you credit for not joining though, you reader work hard for your money, than taking the risk of joining and having a guilt that you could be scaming others. we’ll never know what this business is gonna turn out to.. its a risk like every decisions we make in life. we can’t even trust ourselves at times cause we too make bad choices or decisions the only one we can trust is God who is perfect.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:30 am
next to money there should be a period not a question mark. (due to money.)
October 14th, 2008 at 9:47 am
JoeO says:
Such silliness really. Prices are higher on line? people are too lazy to go one block to get their stuff? shipping costs? everyone knows that some have them and some don’t – it depends on the individual stores. And btw, sales tax can actually be less on-line.
And even funnier is Income Taxes? These naysayers are down to trying to slam STE with income tax issues? First off, no company takes any responsilbilty for individual tax returns. Companies pay out money and YOU are on your own with the IRS. The Gov’t doesn’t care what you were told by your company or even your CPA – in the end its your responsibility.
With regards to cash cash-back from a store, dealer or manufacturer IT IS tax-free. Everyone knows that. Do you pay taxes when you get your $50 mail-in rebate when you get a new cell phone from Verizon? NO, because your getting your ‘already taxed money’ back.
I will make over $60k this year with STE (signed up June 1st) and of course most of this is from commissions. I will gladly pay my taxes on the income! STE will give me a 1099 for the commission total. The cash back on my purchases is tax-free. This is business 101.
PLEASE STOP THE STUPIDITY.
Here it is directly from the IRS website:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html#publink100033109
Cash rebates. A cash rebate you receive from a dealer or manufacturer of an item you buy is not income, but you must reduce your basis by the amount of the rebate.
Example.
You buy a new car for $9,000 cash and receive a $400 rebate check from the manufacturer. The $400 is not income to you. Your basis in the car is $8,600. This is your basis on which you figure gain or loss if you sell the car, and depreciation if you use it for business.
October 14th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Sylvia, Sylvia, Sylvia. For God’s sake, why would I go away? This is way too amusing. Obviously the smarter readers get the message loud and clear. Otherwise, why would you and the others be so mad? Are potential investors saying “No thanks to STE”?
Methinks thou dost protest too much if this is truly “Much Ado About Nothing”. If STE is such a wonderful company and people are signing up in droves, why waste your time shilling on this blog?
October 14th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Not so fast my friend. Affiliate marketing is a business. STE is a business earning this cash back through the affiliate program and passing a portion on to investors (you). This is quite different than you as an individual earning the cash back. And, obviously all points which you earn from recruiting and others shopping beneath you are taxable as well.
Of course, if a business entity earns rewards using the company’s portal then it redeems and shares with its employees, the taxability question may be different. While the rewards received by the business is likely to be viewed as non-taxable, once the rewards are passed onto the employees, their character is likely to change. At that point they likely become more of an income distribution in the course of business. The fair market value of such distributions would likely have to be reported as taxable income by the employees and employer as such increases in wealth need to be declared.
October 14th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
tired of reading blogs from people who don’t have the facts correct.
pay attention everyone….. When you shop on your website and pay $50 for a product at Drugstore.com, you get $5 back TOTALLY tax free. If you doubt this at all, go ask your accountant, if you even know someone that intelligent. Just please stop making fools of yourselves.
October 14th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Hey.
Fucko.
Yes, you mark/joeo/whatever. Pick one username, and stick with it. This bullshit with trying to make it look like there are a lot of people backing this MLM crap is fucking retarded. The next post you make (which I’m sure will be an oh-so-witty response to this post) is the username that you’re stuck with from here on out. Don’t deviate from it.
And before you bitch about me trying to shut you up because that’s the only way I can “win” or whatever notion you’ve gotten into your tiny little brain, let me just point out that I’ve not censored one post here. I’d say I’ve been pretty generous so far.
Knock it off.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
What a scammer Joe “0, ZERO”!!!!!!!!!!! He did that same exact thing on another website. Trying to post under several names. If that isn’t clue enough that this company is a scam, then I’m not quite sure what is.
Joe, you’re an IDIOT and a Scheister!!!!
Hey Mark, I mean Joe ZERO, you could get the same money back from free websites from drugstore.com for FREE.
I guess that doesn’t help you though since your Title business is tanking from this real estate quandry we’re in. I’m quite sure you were pretty honest during that time period too.
October 15th, 2008 at 12:04 am
Well… Lets see what we have here with Shop to Earn.
After joining up with Shop to Earn and forking out $448.00 to a company I don’t really
know, and having got all caught up in the money making frenzy and listening to my personal friends and community bussiness leaders in our fair city, who have joined with Shop to Earn, and might I add, have made very good money in a short period of time, have told me how this is a legitimate business investment and that I was smart to get in at the beginning of a very profitable venture, and they all showed me their “MY CHECK”
I started recruting and had several of my good friends and family members all ready to join.
Then I got to thinking after about 3 weeks into this. Something just doesn’t feel right in my gut. I thought to myself, amost 50,000 people have signed up and probably most of them have bought in as a “Broker” at $448.00 each, lets see, that adds up to $22.4 million dollars this outfit has raked in! Damn! That’s a lot of jack bud.
Then it hit me. When I signed up, I gave them my Social Security number, my routing number and my checking account number, so they could direct deposit the money I would earn into my account. I will be willing to bet just about everyone else did the same thing. They have access to my hard earned money from my regular job that I direct deposit into my account, as well as all the rest of the money I have saved up in this one account. And P.S. I gave my bank card number to pay with. These people have it all! What if this thing goes bad and is a scam. Then what?
They have all the information needed to wipe out my account, your account, and all the rest of the 49 some odd thousand people that have bought into this.
Today I went down to my bank and withdrew every last dime out of this account and opened up a new account that only I have access to. I strongly suggest that anyone else that has their personal bank account information handed over to Shop to Earn, a Company that no one seems to know if it’s ligitimate or not for sure, do the same just in case.
I feel at this time I should not put my good friends, my family members, or my reputation in jepordy. I’m just going to sit back and see how this whole thing unfolds.
In the mean time I’m still a member in good standing with Shop to Earn and can still reap the rewards later if Shop to Earn turns out to be on the up and up. The only thing I will have lost is the $448.00, a small price to pay if this whole thing blows up.
They
October 15th, 2008 at 12:09 am
PA Mom,
This is my second and last post here just to answer yours.
You are absolutely right, this is way too amusing to stay away but I’ll try my best.
Where did you get that I am mad? If my post gave you that impression then you either misread me or I didn’t express well. I am not mad, I am very happy.
I have made more money in one month than many people make in two or three months working eight hours behind a desk and hating what they do.
But that is not the reason why I am so happy, I like money like anyone else but the joy I am getting from helping others beat any amount of cash I could make.
This is good, we are not hurting anyone, on the contrary, many people are finally seeing a light at the end of the very dark tunnel the country is in.
There is nothing better than to see the excitement back in the faces of folks that had lost all hopes of making it out of this mess.
Believe what you want, think what you will, I am sleeping better than ever and thanking God every day for putting this in my hands.
I wish you and everyone here all the best.
Bye
October 15th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Wow is all I have to say after reading all this. I truly do not know if it’s a scam or not, but it sure has ruined my relationship of a year. The only thing my boyfriend has time for is his shop to earn, his calls and his meetings trying to get people to join. It has become an uncontrolable obsession that has no time limits. It’s a very nice web site and business opportunity for those that know how to keep balance things in life. I have supported all his plans from the start but when ambition leads to obsession over money it can blind you to a point of forgetting that all the money and the riches stay when you pass. Ambition can lead to failure and yeah if you dont fail how do you know when you succeeded? But then again guess it was not meant to be from the start. Good luck to all you shop to earn folks.
October 15th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
If you think the ‘cash-back’ is a rebate from the manufacturer, you really do need help..
it’s paid to you as a ‘bonus’ by ScamToEarn.. Bonuses are TAXABLE.
The stores ScamToEarn uses have nothing to do at all with the ‘cash-back’, or any other money you get from the scam. When you purchase something, the store gets their normal price, the extra all goes to the affiliate (aka ScamToEarn). The stores set a base price, which is what ScamToEarn pays, then they ‘markup’ in their portal which is what you use to go to the stores, which covers what they give back, the uplines, plus extra for themselves.
ScamToEarn also gets a small referall fee from the stores when someone purchases (that’s what an afiliate store is!), which ads up to alot more than you’re making from the scam.
I know a few people involved with ScamToEarn. I compared what I make with amazon.com directly to what they made with ScamToEarn from amazon.com, on the same products, I made triple what they did on the identical products, and the people who purchased the products paid less for them through my direct affiliation than those through ScamToEarn.
The same held true for several other outlets as well.
The best paying affiliations are Ebay.com and Ticketmaster.com (ticketmaster if you have a niche where people purchase tickets to events).
Out of all the affliations, EACH ONE sends out reminders to PAY TAXES ON ALL INCOME FROM THE AFFILIATE PROGRAM, including if you purchase yourself (which you get the same fee from as if someone else made the purchase). They cover all the bases, leave nothing out (unlike ScamToEarn), and document it all on their sites for anyone to view.
There’s a lot of ways to earn money from sales and refferals on the internet, legit ways, ScamToEarn is NOT one of them.
This is exactly what these scams do to sucker in people who have no sense about business and REALITY.. they make it all seem to wonderful, and people who simply don’t know any better eat it up.
BTEW.. did you know when you buy a new car, and et that ‘rebate’ or ‘cash back’, you paying taxes on the amount BEFORE the discount? I’ve worked for car dealers, they are sneaky about that, and very few people bother to sit and figure out the amount of taxes against what they actually paid.
October 16th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Mark is a coleague of mine that works down the hall. He read this non-sense and couldn’t help himself – had to chime in. I don’t know how all this IP address stuff works, but it seems that anyone from my company that sends an email comes from the same IP? so therefore it must be me? wrong. I am always Joe O.
Did you really call me Fucko? That’s actually pretty funny. Reminds me of Richie Cunningham.
October 16th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Itsme,
I just read that ridiculous blog that you wrote about cash back. I’ll keep my response short and sweet. STE absolutely does not pay you the cask back!!!! It is not a bonus and you do not have to pay tax on it. Example to help you understand. You buy something for $100. You get $10 of the money that you already spent back. You are simply paying less for the product and not earning a bonus or commission. That’s fact. Please stop making crap up and talking about things that you obviously know nothing about.
As a matter of fact, when I first read it, I was laughing out loud. I thought to myself, this person HAS to be joking around with this and is just trying to heat things up on this site.
I pray for your sake that this is the case. Otherwise, the person that needs help, is you.
October 16th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
if that’s what you believe Mark, your an example as to why our economy is so bad, you haven’t a clue what the hell you are talking about
October 17th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Itsme. Go speak to an accountant please and stop talking BS.
FYI, I wasn’t the one lending money to people who couldnt afford to pay it back. So I guess me being an example of why our economy is so bad is just another statement from you that makes no sense. You just like to talk crap.
I won’t be back to respond to whatever nonsense that you come back with. You’re just wasting my valuable time.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Joe "0", I mean mark,
You definitely have brown eyes because you are full of it. Another scammer from the title business and YES one of the reasons why our economy is so bad. Scammers couldn’t continue and probably pissed all the money that was earned while the gettin’ was good. Now another scam comes along and look who leads the way. Usually title losers, real estate investors/agents, salespeople…….
Nice try Joe "0", we don’t buy the IP excuse. You’ve been doing it on other websites too. It’s obvious and maybe you should learn a little bit more about IPs and computers before you try to BS everyone.
Must have spent to much money at NY Giant games. LOSER!!!!!!!!
October 18th, 2008 at 11:09 am
I MADE A BIG MISTAKE IN JOINING….. DON’T JOIN. ITS A WARNING. THIS WILL DECIEVE MANY. I WOKE UP AND ITS TIME FOR YOU ALL TO WAKE UP WITH OUR ECONOMY GOING AT ITS WORST EVER THIS WILL ONLY MAKE IT 100% WORST ILL SAY IT AGAIN 100% WORST. THIS WILL BE MY FINAL POST, GOD BE WITH YOU ALL.
October 19th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
So really has anyone received money deposited into your accounts?
October 21st, 2008 at 11:26 am
STE is what I would consider a “scam” for those who aren’t business savvy. I’ve been to a meeting and I see potential, for those same individuals who have potential in their 9-5 and beyond.
For the 95% of you that will fail and make no long term passive income, be careful.
A “WEBSITE” lol. $500 for a WEBSITE! It’s an affiliate link that cost no additional money to set up but some server space and a few scripts. So saying your purchasing a “website” is BOGUS and you could probably earn more by signing up at commission junction and referring your friends to buy stuff,.
When it comes down to it, short money in this MLM is what alot will take away. Passive will be for the few who would succeed in anything they do.
My personal opinion, is no way jose! I wouldnt be caught dead doing this. I could flip $500 into $3000 in 3 weeks time and I dont want to make people pay $500 or even $100 as this fee is really what makes people money in this MLM not WEBSITE sales. lol.
October 21st, 2008 at 11:32 am
Heres an idea …someone SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see all these BOGUS and FAKE postings all over the internet claiming earnings.
STE pays BIG bonuses the first few months, but then it GOES DOWN HILL!!!
Someone SHOW UP THE MONEY!!!! …by posting their consecutive checks.
IVE YET TO SEE ANYONE POST A CHECK!!!! The one I did see was from a lady who made $15K but was one of the first 3,000 to sign up.
The program has 60K+ members now, its reaching maturity and t he lucky ones have already been chose.
SOMEONE SHOW US THE MONEY WITH A LINK TO AN IMAGE OF SEVERAL CHECKS, NOT JUST ONE FROM YOUR BIG 1st MONTH BONUS!
lol ….scammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
October 21st, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Shop To Earn isn’t even a registered business. They claim the home office is in LAs Vegas, but there’s no business lsiting for them, no registration, no nothing. They ahve mroe than one website, shoptoearn.net is registered to Nocx Foundation using a PO Box in West Palm Beach, Florida (and also not registered as a business or foundation), their other websites are all registered to some guy in Coral Springs, Florida who isn’t even lsited anywhere on their websites as being a part of the supposed company. You can do a whois lookup to find all this out yourself. shoptoearn.net, shoptoearn.org, and I have the other sites written down somewhere, you can google to find them all.
For those who don’t know much about websites, this is what shop to earn did..
They create a website and sign up for affiliate programs with all the stores in their ‘program’. They even use a tempalte available at free website template sites (yes, it’s that shabby). When somoene signs up, they create a folder on their hosting, make a copy of a generic ‘portal’ page, include a tracking ID they assigned to you, and off you go. You don’t even get a sub-domain, jsut a generically made page which is part of their site.
When you, or someone else purchases items through any of the pages, shop to earn gets the sales commision from the store, which is normally around 10%-20% depending ont he affliliate, or, with some affiliate programs, you pay the store the base price, and add a ‘markup’, which is the money above the base price that you keep per item sold. Shop To Earn then, knowing who purchased what due to the tracking codes, takes a much smaller percentage of that commision and gives it to whoever’s page the shopper went through.
This is something ANYONE can do for free all on their own, make a much larger commision, with no cost at all aside from maybea $4.95 per month web hosting plan to host their website at. You can go to hotscripts.com and download for free ready made websites that do just this!
You can get even more back if you sign up for paypal and use the paypal debit card, which gives you back 2% to 5% each time you use the card as a credit card… Many major credit cards give cash back as well.
so now you know how they do the website thing, and how much money they make off it (all those commisions, plus the hundreds eahch person paid to get their little page on the shop to earn site)
I’ve been a website designer for 20 years, since back when browsing web pages through compuserve or people link was nothing but black and white text on 2400bs dial-up modems. When I was first shown shop to earns site, and apges people think is a website they own, I couldn’t stop laughing.
But this is how MLM scams operate, and the money isn’t made from the shopping, you’re actually spending a fortune to get a few dollars back, and what they give back (and call cash-back) is added to the same check as everything else, and lsited under earnings, making it 100% taxable, even if you already paid sales tax on the purchase you’re getting money back from. They don’t tell you this, they coud care less if you bother to seperate the check yourself to account for every penny of it and hope the IRS doesn’t ask you for more money, that’s not their problem, they got their money already.
Now shop to earn gets even cuter, making you spend $100.00 in the shop to earth stores, jsut to get back $20 or less, or you dont get any money you may have earned from the scheme. The markups are huge on the shop to earth stores, and shop to earn makes even more commision on those sales than the other stores.
One step further, if you don’t stay balanced, as they call it, on the left and the right, they clear everything and you get nothing.
The kicker is when anyone says anything negative about the company, the companies ‘lawyer (also not registered as an attorney anywhere int he states) sends threatening letters to you telling you to stop. This is a classic bully tactic, done by fly by night companies affraid of being caught before they are ready to pack up leaving everyone high and dry, and reopen under a new name, with new sometimes simular products as a cache, but the scheme itself is always the same.
People lvoe to compare shop to earn to MLM’s like Mary Kay or Amway. Both MAry Kay and Amway did start like shop to earn, where signups was the big thing. after several law suits which they, and other MLM’s lost (and MANY in the programs being fined heavily for illegal business and owing back taxes on income), MAry Kay and Amway redesigned and became all about the products, keeping over a 50% customer base that isn’t involved in the MLM itself, making them legal MLM’s. Tupperware is a good example of this as well, you can sign up to sell tupperwear through any tupperwear agent, but you have to sell the products, that is the main focus. Shop to earn, the main focus is on signing people up, where they are forced to buy through the program themselves, which doesn’t count them as customers since they are in the program.
In essence, shop to earn isn’t much differant than someone emailing you that if you send them $1000.00 they will pay you $5000.00 later on for it (and we’ve all had those spam emails), the only differance is, shop to earn does it as a pyramid scheme, and pays you something, making you think you’re actually making money, when it’s overall costing you more than your bring in by the end of the year when you’re figuring out taxes (assuming you do taxes honestly), and add/subtract everything you’ve spent and made.
When they get caught (and they will, it’s jsut a matter of when), anyone who has signed up is subject to IRS and FTC investigations, fines, and penalties.
PErsonally, I am an affliate directly with most of the stores shop to earn uses, and ahve spent less on the same items others using shop to earn have paid, and made three times as much back, plus I get the same commisions from others visiting my websites and buying through the affilate links, but that’s me, I design websites, those who don’t know how to create a real website, like I said, you can get them ready made, get hosting for as little as $4.95 per month (I pay $50 per year for one site I have), and have your own online shopping portal, where only you make money, and you’re only investing $5 a month to do it, making over 3x more than through shop to earn, and best yet, you’re not causing friends and relatives to disown you for bugging them to join a scam!
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:43 am
Dustin:
Give me your e-mail and I’ll show you the money!
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:44 am
Itsme:
You really crack me up!
With all the time you spend investigating and posting your loooong messages here, I bet you’ve got lots of idle time in your hands.
What is funny is that you don’t even have the facts straight but you keep posting and posting and posting…really, this confirms that there are “watchers” and then there are “doers” in life. You are a “watcher”.
I would love to know how much money you’ve made this week because it’s been a good week for me so far, $1,999.95 to be exact and it’s only Tuesday. On top of that, I got my direct deposit from STE yesterday, so all is good, very good around here.
But you can keep writing your endless posts, you can keep investigating, you can keep doing what you do, ultimately it is not making even a slight difference in this world.
I wish more STE members would post here but they don’t even want to bother and are laughing at you and all others like you while going to the bank.
LOL
Cheers!
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:51 am
Sylvia:
You’re actually deriding someone for doing their due diligence about an apparently non-existent company? And if we can save just one person – JUST ONE PERSON – from signing up, then I….well, frankly I don’t care. The only people who sign up for this sort of thing are:
1) the terminally stupid
2) the irredeemably predatory
3) the tragically hipGet back to me when these guys get shut down or run away with all “your” money. Oh, and when you do, please feel free to include the new website/company that they’ve moved to. Thanks!
Now please, kindly go die in a fire. I’m sure you can afford the gasoline and kindling with your recent direct deposit.
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:19 am
Dear Paul,
I’m not
1)Terminally stupid
2)Irredeemably predatory
nor
3) Tragically hip
And I would not put anyone down for doing “their due diligence” either if the information they keep posting here was reliable in any way. I investigated the company before signing up and they do exist. My sister in law is a lawyer and she did her homework as well, and joined the company right after.
I can’t help but laugh at the comments here, which are based on misinformation or lack of information.
I can certainly afford the gasoline to go die in a fire but maybe you don’t know this either, we are an environmentally conscious group thus I would never do such a thing and contribute to the already contaminated atmosphere.
Green all the way!! (Money is green too, isn’t it? Isn’t that a coincidence!)
LOL
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 am
Disprove what itsme (or anyone else here) has said, point for point, or pipe down. Constant posts of “LOLOLOLOL STE is great, I maek sooo much $$$ you l00zers don’t kno whut ur missin” were interesting at first, but are now tiring.
You claim we have misinformation? Prove it. What misinformation, and where have we gotten it wrong? Your sister-in-law is a lawyer? Yeah, and in high school, the boyfriend you had lived in Canada, that’s why no one ever met him.
I assure you that putting yourself out of our misery would, in the long run, be better for the environment. Don’t believe me? Go ahead and do it, and we’ll track how things go afterward.
And just so we’re clear, if you reply with another “Oh my god, we’re all laughing at you, because you don’t know anything” kind of masturbatory bullshit post, it’ll be deleted. Post something with substance, and it’ll be added – simple as that.
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:56 am
[EDITOR'S NOTE: entire post redacted, as it contained nothing of substance]
October 22nd, 2008 at 6:42 am
I think your comments are unwarranted, and just plain uninformed about MLM. I’ll admit that as a person who has been involved in several opportunities, including Teamnational, real earnings are hard to come by. However, my experience with STE has been nothing short of miraculous! Any business opportunity we involve ourselves in has costs, as an owner of a well know franchise I know this all too well. The reason STE was attractive to me was the UNCOMPLICATED compensation plan,the fact that not only did I make money back THREE times over, I have made other personal connections that have enhanced my exsisting business.This was reason enough to write this response. The trouble with most blogs I have encountered is there utter negativity whatever the topic is. Members of STE aren’t being fleeced of their hard earned money, a little effort goes a long way with STE!! Some members have even saved their homes from the EVIL MONEY MARKETS. So, I have only one more thing to add in conclusion “As a man/woman believes in his heart, so is he”.
October 22nd, 2008 at 10:37 am
You are a sorry man Paul.
Commas. Learn to use them, learn to love them.
My post had no substance? Ha! I told you exactly what you needed to know.
Quite possibly, but you never actually told me what I asked/required.
Any words of reason are lost in this place.
Hardly a fair assessment, since you haven’t provided any.
Goodbye
I stand corrected – that’s the first worthwhile thing you’ve said so far
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:07 am
sylvia,
ask your sister in law these simple questions about shop to earn and let us known what she came up with in her ‘investigation’..
1. why would a supposedly real company claiming to be based in las vegas regisdter it’s websites with people in Florida (and one ‘foundation’ that doesn’t actually exist, aka the Nox Foundation)?
2. who is Matthew Whiteshield of Penbroke Pines, Florida that all but shoptoearn.net is registered to?
3. Why would they need multiple websites? and why deid they try to use shoptoearn.org when they aren’t an organization?
4. Why doesn’t the company honor refund requests within 30 days as they claim they will? anyone who tries to contact them for a refund within the stated 30 days, only finds the conact information and phone numbers don’t work.
5. Why has the Las Vegas Chamber OF Commerice not heard of shop to earn or it’s ‘owners/founders’?
6. Why would a company’ that claims to have started in early 2008, display ‘testamonials’ going back to 2006 and 2007?
the testimonials all state shoptoearn.net, which was registered in 2005 as a domain name, but they used shoptoearn.org throughout 2006 and 2007.
7. why would a respectable company, want to use someone like Matthew Whiteshield, who’s email address is whitey@fdwhitey.com he owns fdwhitey.com), who has porn pictures, video’s, and stories about beastiality and rape on his site’s forums? (you can google links to all of it). This guy is supposed to be a firefighter and paramedic as well (glad I don’t live in his district).
8. what is shopsaveearn.net all about? it’s been online since 2006, same ‘owners’, siular scheme to sop to earn. Even says ‘a group of shop to earn brokers’ on the site! What company holds ’seminars’ for investors? seriously.. what a joke. Again, it’s registered to Matthew Whiteshield.. this guy seems to ahve more stake in shop to earn than those who claim they ‘developed the program for ten years’. After seeingthe porn this guy houses on his own website, I’d believe the only thing he’s developed is a bad case of crotch itch.
9. How does a company maintain over a 50% customer base that isn’t a part of the program itself, when only the ‘brokers’ are buying the products? Amway, MAry Kay, etc. all focus on actual products, they didn’t always, but they do now, keeping them within the legality of an MLM, unlike shop to earn. And don’t come up with ‘their selling you a website’, because they aren’t, it’s their website, they jsut create a genereic landing page, you own absolutley nothing, and are paying them hundreds for something you can get free (and legal) everywhere else.
10. How does a company call an affiliate commision ‘cash back’, when it is nothing of the sort? they earn commision on the sales, and give you a much smaller percentage, calling it cash back so it looks nicer to you. People who have no idea what a website is, or what an affiliate program is, believe this nonsense. Check into the affliate programs of every store shop to earn uses, they’ll tell you flat out you get a commision, not cash back, no rebates, COMMISION.. totally taxable too, doesn’t matter who made the purchase. I’m an affiliate of about half the stores shop to earn uses, you can claim from today tillt he end of time that ist’s cash back, it isn’t. Shop to earn calls it cash back to help sucker people in, it’s a ’sales tactic’, like when car dealers make people think their getting a special deal on a new car, when they really aren’t, the price is so over book, they can deduct thousands and throw in extra’s without coming close to losing a commision on anything, but people will believe they are getting a special on it. ‘and if you order int he next 10 minutes, you get a second set free!’… same nonsense.. you aren’t getting anything free, in fact, your paying extra shipping and tax on what they call free, which is what they were planning to sell all along.
another good and common catch is ‘100% refund if not happy’.. hahahaha.. my favorite, cause they will always find a reason why they can’t give you a refund, or you can’t contact them to get the refund (much like shop to earn does).
so go have your sister in law find exact answers to all of this, we’ll be waiting!
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:21 pm
VHPB:
For those of you that don’t understand “sycophant”, let me translate to proper English:
“Blah blah blah, I have nothing new to contribute, blah blah, you’re just negative, blah blah….”
Seeing as how we’re so far into the discussion here, please refrain from AOL-like “me too!” posts. If you have something to contribute, please do. If not, please don’t post for the sake of posting. If you’ll read through the comments, I think you’ll see I’ve been rather fair with posting information from both sides of the coin, so rest assured – if you have something pertinent to say, I’ll post it.
I’m leaving this comment up because, as Spider-Man says, “Everybody gets one.”
Oh, and about people calling me negative? Yes, I may be negative, but that doesn’t make me wrong.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Paul,
It’s all they can do as they can’t provide any legit information about STE or simular such programs.
All the information those of us have been psoting to warn others, and share knowledge of how these schemes really work is all taken from expeiriences, knowledge of being there, and in the case of STE, right from their own websites.
Kudos to you for not letting STE’s ‘lawyer’ (and use use that term loosely) scare you into giving up. While many use the internet to promote these scams, schemes (or whatever people want to call them), others use it for what it was meant to be for, information sharing.
I think it’s funny that people call us ‘negative’ when we’re jsut sharing facts that anyone can find very easily. Because these facts may cause those invovled in the schemes a potential sucker..err.. sign up, they panic and try to stiffle it.
Another term for it is ‘brainwashing’.
Again, Kudos for not caving into these fly by night, inexperienced ’salespeople’.
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Very Happy Pyramid…
congrats, but your missing a very big point.. STE is selling you something that’s FREE. They ahve affiliate programs with allt he stores, thatg anyone can sign up for FREE, or go to other programs which are legit, such as Commission Junction, sign up FREE, and all the affiliates are right there for you to choose from with just a click. You can get a premade website and low cost hosting for under $4.95 per month, add your affiliates, and poof, now you have a little business that you actually own!
You don’t own anything with STE, you’re not buying anything but products from affiliates where STE makes the commision, then passesd a small portion of that commission to you, calling it ‘cash back’ which it is anything but. You simply don’t know what an affiliate program is.
You can even take your little free site on it’s $4.95 per month host, add a signup to it with database (you can get those free as well ready made), have people sign up, charge them to sign up, give them a portion of the commision you make from the affiliates, and wow, OMG! you have a copy of ShopToEarn! (to be more direct, shop to earn uses a template from freetemplates.com and godaddy hosting at $14 per month)
Learn a little about affiliate programs with these stores online, and about how websites are designed and operated, you’ll think twice about handing $400+ over to someone to do what you can do free and legit. This is the whole problem.. these schemes target people who don’t know any better and ahve no knowledge of the internet beyond google searches and clicking links (or accessing email). IT all seems to great to those unknowledged about it all. This is why so many who do know how to create a website, and know about the affilaite programs are laughing at everyone who signs up for STE and other such schemes. We DO know how it works, and how it’s taking advatnage of everyone and ripping people off. We are aware of regulations, how long it generally takes for these schemes to be sued and either shut down, or revamped into a legit scheme. We’ve seen it a million times, and deal with local, and federal laws all the time as web site designers and owners. I personally have seen over a dozen ‘wave of the future’ and ‘garaunteed to make money’ schemes exactly like STE come and go, with the entire ‘downline’ forced to pay huge fines and back taxes on every penny they recieve3d fromt he scheme. MY own brother was big on Amway until it happened to them, and I had to help bail him out when he ended up owing over $25,000.00 in fines and back taxes on the $15,000 he had earned with Amway back when Amway landed in supreme court and was forced to change over to a ‘product’ company, and court ordered (along with random people in the downline) to pay up for being an illegal pyramid. OTher’s in my family learned the same hard lesson from others like NUSKIN INTL, which made you buy ‘kits’ to sell to new signups. NUSKIN INTL survived about 2 years before they were completely shut down and the guy who started the program indicted with a 10 year sentance (probably reduced to 2 years and fine).
October 22nd, 2008 at 6:33 pm
I just want to say quickly, CONGRATS TO SHOP TO EARN FOR LOSING THEIR AFFILIATE ACCOUNT WITH WALMART.COM!
I know what the STE suckers will say, the affiliate account expired and STE is working on renewing it… well, that’s what they tell ya, anyone who knows anything at all about affiliate accounts with retailers and online stores knows, afiliate accounts NEVER EXPIRE and NEVER HAVE TO BE RENEWED, you either quit using it, or, they take it away from you gfor violation of their terms of service. Most who signed up for STE (If not all) wouldn’t know how affiliate programs work (or they’d never sign up for STE), so go right on believing what STE tells you of course, the rest of us will continue to sit here laughing about it.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I love Shop To Earn!
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
*sigh*
“Everybody gets one” wasn’t an invitation, dammit.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:51 am
Hey Paul. Without question, MLM is not for everyone. And without fail, there will be several hundred thousand people who pay for the program and never use it. It won’t be any different that the hundreds of thousands that pay for a BJ’s membership and rarely use it. Nor will it be any different then the Millions that will pay for a gym membership… use it once, and then pay for years and never use it. Such is life.
It’s a great program for those that do use it. And as you have seen with your own eyes, there are those that do. In any business, building a sales team is usually a part of that business. In this business, you do much the same… build a team. That team has to pay to own their own business… but what business out there doesn’t come with start up costs? Even if you go to work for a company… don’t you have to buy a new suit, get it dry cleaned, pay for gas to get to the interview… etc. And like with all businesses, you have to work if you want to get paid.
This is no different. Call it a wolf in sheeps clothing, or whatever you want. But the fact is that this company does several things that you fail to mention…
1. They clearly offer a service (savings through your own affiliate links) to the products at Target, Best Buy, Circuit City… and on and on. NO, not everyone is smart enough or savy enough to just set up an affiliate network and get their own links to use. Plus, because of STE’s collective power, they wouldn’t get the same LEVEL of discounts that they get through STE, because of the HIGH VOLUME of traffic STE sends through their links.
2. Everyone who joins knows UP FRONT exactly what is required for them to make money. People don’t have to take advantage of the Business Opp. If someone joins but then makes no effort to share the program and get others to sign up, then it’s their failure, no one elses. All companies these days typically pay a referral fee when you refer others to their service, and STE is no different.
3. People ARE getting paid, as is evident by the proof that was emailed to you by CB.
4. If your beef is that people “join” because they have high hopes of making big money, when in fact only a small percentage make the really big bucks… well now… isn’t that free market at it’s best. I’m sure everyone who opened a dry cleaning store hopes to make big bucks, but there’s no guarantees. And this certainly doesn’t cost as much as trying to open a dry cleaning shop.
5. Maybe some people are content with just making a small amount of extra money. Who says everyone has to make HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Tell one of the members of my team who is a single mom raising two kids on a GED that this program is a scam. I’m sure she would have to disagree. Although she only makes about $500 to $1,000 a month right now doing this… it certainly beats making nothing!! What other business could she invest SO LITTLE and yet see that kind of income. Even if the company only lasts two years… at least that’s two years where she can feed her children and take care of her family. We can’t all be successful like you with two houses and two cars and blah blah blah. $500 might not be a lot to you, but to her… it’s worth it.
So my point is… while I am perfectly fine with you having your own opinion about STE and posting it on your “youalldisgustme” blog, I have to tell you that quite frankly, it is your attitude that disgusts me. If we are all “CROOKS” because we have joined this program, we like it, we make money from it, and we encourage others to also join… then I guess the whole world is full of crooks.
But then again, I guess one only has to look at what is going on on Wall Street right now to know that basically, the whole world IS full of crooks.
In the meantime, I am going to take every chance I can get to better myself and my family. And since my GODDAMN job just cut my medical benefits because the ECONOMY is sh@t, I guess I’ll be peddling this savings program to a few more people…
HOPEFULLY THEY WILL BE A BIT MORE OPEN MINDED THAN YOU!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:51 am
John,
I believe that there has been some misunderstanding. You say:
If we are all “CROOKS”
If that’s what you got from my posting, then I truly, and humbly apologize. I never intended to imply that anyone who does this stuff is a crook. They’re slime. There’s a difference, and I apologize again if I misled you (or anyone else!) in any way. Also, please note that the first usage of the word “crook” was yours.
Here, let me allow others to speak for me:
Now, on to your “points”.
1) What service do they offer? Affiliate links and programs? Or are they really selling a spot in the pyramid? It’s not really selling a product or service, when what they’re selling you is a $15/mo website whose SOLE PURPOSE FOR EXISTENCE is to get yet more people to sign up and give money directly to STE. Also, can you prove that STE’s “buying power” gets you better discounts than you would through any other affiliate program?
2) I liken this statement to someone going to a brothel, expecting sex, but getting to experience sudden and violent assrape at the hands of Bruno with absolutely no lube. But hey, sex is sex, so it’s all the same, right? “Hey, you were told what would happen in there, weren’t you? You got sex, right?” If everyone who joined up knew exactly what they were getting into, there wouldn’t be quite so many people joining up, and the “company” wouldn’t have to dress it with phrases like “Does the idea of shopping online and earning cash back on every purchase sound like a good idea to you? Then Shop To Earn is what you need!”
3) Yes, people who harass, harangue and another h-word all their friends, family and co-workers into joining up. You know, for the low, low cost of $450. Sounds slimy to me. Oh hey, that’s what started this thing off, didn’t it?
4) My beef isn’t with watching people soaring high on the winds of delusion crashing into the ocean of despair. Frankly, schedenfreude is quite amusing to me. My beef is with companies like this that a) so blatantly lie about what they are, and then b) attempt to sue anyone who calls them out on it. Remember, I only posted about this “company” whenever they started suing people who spoke negatively about them. Big guy picking on little guy. It’s one of my “buttons”.
5) It’s worth it to your fictional single mom to sell out her worth as a human being for $1000 a month? Man, there’s a word for people who sell themselves for money. Wish I could remember what it was. And, just because I’m in the mood to entertain fools, let’s say she *does* make this $1000 per month. That’s $5.21 per hour. This is your final point? The linchpin of your argument? Come on. You’re relatively well-spoken, which means you can’t be completely mentally deficient. You can do better than that.
Your point about Wall Street is quite accurate, but not germane to the discussion.
Now, your job cutting your benefits just because the economy takes a downturn? That truly *is* shitty, and you have my sympathies. I currently work full-time at my job, and then work 2 other jobs just to bring in a little spare cash since as you’ve noted, our economy got a healthy dose of ebola recently.
However, you claim that I am not open minded? I’m very open minded, but not so much that the damned thing falls out. I have posted every comment that I’ve received that wasn’t some spammer hawking viagra or some such. I have listened to both sides of the story, and believe it or not, I *am* open to being convinced. However, since I’ve already looked into this and my opinion is already against STE, the arguments have got to be pretty damned convincing. And so far, I’m sorry to say, they have mostly consisted of dogmatic rhetoric and ad hominem attacks.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Like I said, you’re free to your opinion. I’m sure at some point in your life, you also have been involved in something “slimy”. None of us are free of dirt my friend.
I only referred to the word “crook” because it is readily implied on this site, if not by you, then by a few others. So I just wanted to clarify my point that if selling a business opportunity is “slimy”, then there are a lot of slimy people out there. Remember, if you opened a tax firm… I would bet your first customers would be your family and friends. Selling your business to those you know first is called networking my friend. And ALL businesses do it. But if you prefer to call us slimy for such a thing… that’s fine all the same. The whole world is slimy, so it’s fairly impossible to come out unscathed.
As for the original intent of your blog… I will give you that I don’t agree with the Companies position in threatening legal action for some bad blog that was written on the internet. In fact, that probably wasn’t the smartest approach on the part of STE. However, all companies make bad decisions… and they’ll have to accept the fallout from it. This is again why I stated that I firmly believe you have a right to your opinioin.
I’m going to leave the “legitimate” MLM statement alone… because it’s simply ridiculous. What’s the difference whether you make money on when they join or when they buy a product. It’s the same thing. In Monavie… a very large MLM that is pretty successful, you make money when your first “recruit” buys juice. You also get a “sign up” bonus. So the “legitimate” MLM comment is silly. While most MLM companies products or services are generally overpriced, it’s the nature of the beast, so you either accept it and move on… or whine about it.
I think my points were valid.
1. I have been in affiliate marketing for many years. Try going to Commission Junction, signing up for an account, and getting approved to use the Best Buy affiliate link. First, you most likely will not get approved unless you have a website with decent traffic. Second, you will most likely make the lower end of the tier in terms of commissions because unless you buy a crap load of stuff from Best Buy, you simply won’t qualify for the higher discount. Through STE, because LOTS of people are buying through the links, you qualify for higher commissions (or rebates).
2. Nothing is hidden in the presentation of the business. Everyone who starts knows that they will have to share this with others and get them to sign up in order to make any money. If people are wise, they will search the web and find blogs like yours which will warn them of all the pitfalls. But at the end of the day… this is still America, they are still adults and their decision to join is on them. Period.
3. Call it what you want. As I said, anytime you start a business you are going to NETWORK to your friends and family first. Maybe the Chicken at your new Chickin N Ribs Shack really sucks to high hell, and yes, your family members are going to be out $40 for crappy food, but you’ll peddle it none the less, because it’s your business and you believe in it.
4. “My beef isn’t with watching people soaring high on the winds of delusion crashing into the ocean of despair. Frankly, schedenfreude is quite amusing to me. My beef is with companies like this that a) so blatantly lie about what they are, and then b) attempt to sue anyone who calls them out on it.”
- Okay, so your beef is watching people have hope and then lose it. You must be almost ten feet under then watching whats going on in the housing market right now. And I don’t recall the company ever telling lies about what they do. They’ve been pretty up front from the get go.
I think really, your beef is that the company threatened legal action against a blog owner. Let’s just call it what it is. I don’t disagree with your beef, but hey… what are lawyers for.
5. I’m going to ignore this comment… as it is pretty heartless. As you mentioned in your post, I am a fairly well spoken individual with a pretty good head on my shoulders. I have no reason to lie to you. I saw your blog as I was surfing the web and decided to put my two cents in. And yes, the single mom who is new to my team and is disabled because of an accident many years ago NEEDS something where she can work from home. Especially in today’s marketplace. With a GED all she gets are “No’s”, and she simply cannot work at McDonalds because of her diability. But I’m going to go under the assumption that you think I’m lying to you and that you wouldn’t be this cold to a woman of this nature if you truly knew what I am telling you is reality.
To you and me $1,000 isn’t anything, but when combined with her disability, it get’s her through. Remember, not everyone is as lucky as you and I to have cars and houses.
To close out (because I have to go to my other job
, thank you for at least allowing others to counter on your viewpoints. While I don’t agree with them, I respect your right to voice them. It won’t change how many people I get to sign up… because I’m a damn good salesman 
.
Take care and good luck to you.
PS. Your house in Florida ain’t worth sh@t anymore. I should know, I live here
October 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am
1) I disagree again. Where’s the product? Where’s the service? if it were truly legit, then they would just say “Hey, give us some money and we’ll get you good deals on some websites. Oh, and if you get someone else to sign up, we’ll give you a kickback.” No, what they do is sell you a website for $350-$450 (which is insane) and then in order to make your money back, you have to recruit in order to add to your downline. And if you don’t buy enough from the store, you don’t get your commissions? I dunno, that part just seems….fishy.
The Catch-22 here is that if you don’t give it too much thought, and are – for lack of a better term – less intelligent about the business, you won’t make much money. But the more intelligent you are, and the more you see how the business works, the more you understand what it is that you’re really involved in. That understanding allows you to sell the plan to others, and in turn gets you more money.
2) I still say that the presentation is less than honest. But I can let this one slide – anyone who expects to get something for nothing is sorely deluding themselves.
3) I disagree with this, as I actually AM a business owner and have dissuaded friends/family away from my business when I don’t think we’re a good fit for them. If the chicken at my Chicken and Ribs Shack was horrible because I saved money by using reprocessed mouse loaf instead of actual chicken, I would tell those I care about to stay the hell away. I would also tell them to show their appreciation towards me by sending all THEIR friends to my business. End result – I won’t alienate friends/family by trying to get them involved in something that I know isn’t really their cup of tea. Or mouse.
4) If they were upfront about it, they’d say something more like “the people who make the most money here are those who got in on the ground floor. If you’re reading this, it’s not you. You can still make some money, but don’t expect to retire off it.” Instead, all you ever hear about are those people who make oodles and oodles (that’s an economic term) of cash, and it’s portrayed as the norm. Kinda like the diet/exercise plans or the pills that show someone on screen saying “I lost 96 pounds using the Flab-B-Gone system!” but in REALLY tiny print at the bottom, they say that the results are not typical, that the average weight loss is 3 pounds a month, and that anal leakage is to be expected.
5) All right, if this person you know is real and not a fabrication made up in order to garner some sympathy, then mea culpa. It certainly seemed to come from chapter 7 of the Pulling The Sympathy Card To Win The Argument textbook, so I was skeptical.
And I *really* don’t need you to tell me that my house isn’t worth shit. The cold, hard reality of it is smacking me in the face every single day. When you drop the price almost $100k, and people STILL say that it’s “over fair market value”, you know something’s wrong.
Wanna buy a house? It’s lovely, I swear.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
I just ahve to add this, mostly directed to John at the moment.
first, i’ve been approached by several trying to sell me STE, and they ALL LIED. I sat through a whole presentation someone involved with STE made to a non-profit, telling them outright ‘no one makes a penny from it but you’. We all know that’s a lie as they would make commision from the sign up as well as any products purchased. They6 also left out everything about signing up others, keeping the left and right balanced, and everything else about the progra they thought would turn the non-profit away. I asked them about all that, and their answer was ‘this doesn’t work like that at all’.. another lie jsut to make a commision on a signup for their own downline. I’ve sat through simular with everyone trying to sell me the STE nonsense. They tell you what they think you want to hear, not the truth, and it’s all the same lines from each of them like they’re reading a script they got from one of the ’seminars’, just like telemarketting, they feed you what to say to people to decieve them into what your selling them.
The claim of Discounts on items you purchase anyway’.. another LIE, there is no discounts, if anything, prices are marked up to cover the upline/downline, and the ‘cash back’ is a sales commision, not cash back at all. They use the cash back term simply because you earn the commision even when yoiu purchase yourself. Meanwhile, all the office supplies and equipment myself, and others who have been approached by STE people purchase regularly, is cheaper by ordering directly than through STE (even with the ‘Cash Back’.
Second, what makes a MLM legal or illegal is the LAW, not us. a MLM must have over 50% product sales to customers not within the company or making profit or commision. STE does not meet this as it’s only those who sign up for STE purchasing any products. This is what got Amway and all the others in major trouble (Amway being one of the first and the reason these laws came into existance).
Finally, you’re not buying a business with STE. STE isn’t eve3n a business, they aren’t registered anywhere as a business, have no business license. This is easy to check, they claim the main offices are LAs Vegas, NEvada, a city where all businesses that are registered there are made public record. Their websites are all registered to various people in Florida, none of which are lsited as busiensses or part of the STE owners/leaders. The NOX Foundation, who shoptoearn.net is registered to, supposedly out of West Palm Beach, Florida, isn’t registered as a business or foundation (also easy to check, WPB is another city with public record businesses and organizations as the whole state of Florida is).
You’re not getting a ‘website’ from them either, they use a generic site that they just create a folder with included page. They name the folder whatever name you chose when you signed up. It’s not even a sub-domain (sub-domain would be mysite.shoptoearn.net, not shoptoearn.net/mysite). Search engines wont even index the individual pages because the contaent is identical on each of them, so search engines see it as duplicate/copied content and ignore it.
They’re claim of taking 10 years to develope this program made me laugh the hardest. This same shceme has been done over and over again for over 10 years, it’s not a new idea, they weren’t the first to think of it, and it’s not the first time they’ve tried it. They’ve had 5 domain names in 4 years, the msot recent was shoptoearn.org, which hey couldn’t continue to use as they aren’t an organization.. I’m sure the FCC had something to say about them using the .org, which was registered after shoptoearn.net was registered. My guess is they were trying to use .org to sellt he program to alot of non-profits as a ‘fund raiser’, having a .org made them look like a non-profit as well. Typical ’slimy’ as Paul calls it. I guess this because i’ve seen it done hundreds of times.
now for the kicker, anyone notice yet how much spam email is now going around with ‘earn money from home’ and ‘make $$’ with links to someones STE page? it’s started! was only a matter of time for this to begin. maybe STE should hire that freak in the question mark suit doign those infomercials so at least we’d be entertained.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Hi, I have been approached by many friends since the beginning of summer to join ste; I have flat out refused! When people ask me why I won’t join I tell them that I don’t want to hound my friends and family into feeling bad and joining. They give me that owner of a website and business argument and how much money I could save by shopping and I just laugh. I tell them that if they want their friends and family to save money have them join a website like fatwallet.com (there are others as well). They are free and you get back cash for shopping. Since I just got yet another solicitation from a friend, I did some comparison research on ste and fat wallet. You can earn 4% back on walmart on fw but walmart is not offered anymore on ste. 1800petmeds are 8 or 10% on both. Apple is 1% on both, etc. Why would I spend $450 for a free service? It’s obvious, isn’t it? To scam my friends and family into also spending $450!!
Lately, wherever I go, everyone is talking ste! I was getting my hair cut the other day and the woman next to me was on the phone talking it up. Then when I went to pay, the receptionist hit me up! It is obnoxious already and I am sick of it. I wish the FCC would just shut it down already!
October 24th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I have been reading and posting on these blogs for sometime now and it amazes me that people still just don’t get it!!!! The business model is paying the bulk of the money from RECRUITING!!!! Not SELLING product or service. The FTC is the law, not the people writing on these blogs. The fact of the matter is they are non-compliant with the way that the current pay structure is set up, PERIOD!
Now, to the people who have been in MLM for many years and jump from company to company, they could care less if the FTC shuts down STE as long as they have made their cut. I know because I know many of the people who make it their careers doing this, and have made a boat load of money.
I have been in the industry since I was 18 years old, now 38 I know exactly how this industry works, can almost instantly tell you which companies will be around for the next 20 years and who will be gone in 1 year. The problem that I have with the companies that start with the intention to be gone with oodles of money in a couple of years is what happens to the new people to the industry, the little guy that didn’t have a clue that the company would be gone and completely changed his lifestyle cause the money that he had coming in one day came to a complete stop? There are those who don’t care because they got their $$$ they expected it to happen and move on to the next start up company. This is what gives this industry such a bad name, because the 90% of the people that did not make fortunes now say to everyone they know “don’t get involved in one of those scams/pyramid schemes and it make it harder for the people and companies that do it right.
I’m not against making money, hell I love money and I make a of it, but I wont do it at the price of my trust and integrity. Two of my friends joined STE and called me to try and get me involved, they thought OMG if I could get him in! They know that I have built an extremely successful organization over the past 10 years and would surely jump ship, YEAH RIGHT! I did however look at STE, did the webinar and met with them to discuss the business model. I IMMEDIATELY could see issues. Specifically that they were making all of their money from recruiting, and I do mean ALL. My buddy told me that he didn’t shop at all on his sight yet, but come September he would need to start doing $100.00 from shoptoearth.com, which I don’t have a problem at all with monthly requirements, every business has overhead, but what did bother me is that he was not shopping, nor were any of his people, I mean NONE and yet he still made over $2000.00, I said whoooow, this is a big red flag my man. Your company is paying for recruits and not on the sales of goods or services. I know this is an issue because I am VERY familiar. The first MLM’s I started with were shut down for the same of similar issues. Now, mind you, I have never prospected them into my company and even after seeing STE I did not say “you should look at what I’m doing”. I don’t build my business with family or friends unless they are coming to me, and I still make it difficult for them, as I do not like doing business or working with family and friends, this is just a personal preference for me.
My buddy was pretty concerned about what I had told him because it was his family and friends that joined his business and he told me they did so because they TRUST him! He is brand new to the industry and does not know what to look for when evaluating an MLM/Network Marketing/Direct Sales business. I gave him a history/business lesson on the industry so he could at least be well informed and know how to move forward with honesty and integrity and that means he needs to do the same with the people he brought in, so at least they can make an educated decision based on facts and not hype that is typical to why people join an MLM.
For me, I love this industry more than any other and can’t imagine what my life would be like without it. It’s a wonderful business, but there are right and wrong ways in the approach that people have in building their organization and unfortunately people usually do build in ways that are not beneficial and it hurts the industry as a whole. I truly hope that STE recognizes the flaws and works diligently to ensure their longevity, because the more successful people, the better. Based on what I have seen so far, I can foresee them having issues in the near future.
My suggestion to people who are reading these blogs is “do your do diligence and educate yourself” NOT on just STE but the industry, do research and make your decision based on information and not from a night of motivational hype that someone is throwing at you. Also I strongly suggest that you DO NOT take ANY advice from ANYONE that has not participated in this industry because they cannot give you any worthy advice as they have no experience. Would you go skydiving for the first time and take lessons from someone who has never done it before? I sure as hell wouldn’t. Try to get unbiased information from people who can tell you from experience, find people who failed at their company and people who succeeded, you will clearly see the difference in the two individuals and then you will need to make a choice on who’s advice you would rather take. Remember success is a choice, making money is a choice, you just need to find out what vehicle is right for you. It took me time to realize this, but once I did, my life has never been the same. Good luck!
October 24th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
well said Robinator..
with all the sly by night and scam MLM’s out there, it’s hard for most people who are unaware to know which is legit and which isn’t, which will be around a long time, and which won’t. You can’t lsiten to those who start the MLM or try to recruit people in as they will tell you whatever gets you to sign up. it requires research, asking alot of questions, comparing answer’s, going over it with a fine toothed comb for every little red flag that might come up “(and STE has many of those red flags).
I personally am not a fan of MLM at all, but there are MLM’s out there that comply with the laws, don’t sucker people in, and do business the proper and respectable way. Amway is one (not always, but after they got caught back when all the laws on it were new, they changed everything and now comply fully), Mary Kay is another legit one, so is Avon. LEgit ones are out there, and there is potential with them, They take a little mroe work than the scams do, you can’t simply pass out a business card with a url, you have to have products to show and demonstrate, which they do.
Like anything, legit business’s do get exploited, MLM is the biggest exploited as it’s so easy to exploit, and there are so many people around who don’t have enough business sense, knowledge of the laws, or knowledge of the internet beyond email and browsing through AOL or google to know better. This is why the fruads and scams target area’s witht he highest conentration of these people (aka south Florida having a high high school dropout rate, large immigrant population (legal and illegal), senior citizens, etc..). Counties in south Florida such as West Palm Beach have very corrupt governments, making it easier to pass off scams for a longer period of time in the county. over all, it makes the legit honest MLM’s and the honest people in those look bad because the scam MLM’s are very simular in design.
I also agree, working with family and friends is always a bad idea.. if something goes very wrong, you lose that friend/family, and it effects others who are also mutual friends/family, especially if one speaks bad about ya to famiy and mutual friends, it put sthem in the mniddle where they don’t need to be, makes them feel they have to choose sides, in which case, they either do choose sides, or disown both sides. it’s a very bad situation.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
John B.,
How much online SHOPPING have you done through the website? How much have you made from that shopping?
Now, how much have you made from RECRUITING?
I can guarantee you, if you’ve made any money, that it will probably be in the area of 90 – 95% money from RECRUITING (SCAMMING) and 5 – 10% from shopping.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:49 am
Itsme, also very well said.
October 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Sorry about all my typos
October 25th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I make just as many typo’s.. especailly when getting riled up about morons degrading what honest people do.
October 25th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
i love people like paul… just like liberals, he’ll never get it. i’ve been extremely successful with ShopToEarn and have since worked STE full time and had to open a LLC because of it. i’ve had both of my attorneys look into this (one of which specializes in “pyramid” scams with the FBI) and ShopToEarn is as solid as microsoft so sucks for paul that he wont be making any money- keep going to work for someone else and continue to be a puppet paul! btw Paul, brenda makes more than you do in a year in 1 month now, so go F yourself paul!
October 25th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
“successful broker”:
Post the names and numbers of your attorneys so that interested parties can contact them and vet your information or pipe down.
October 26th, 2008 at 12:26 am
[EDITOR'S NOTE: suffice it to say, he continued to talk like a 4th grader, and refused to give me the name or number of either of his attorneys. Coward. He already had his "one".]
October 26th, 2008 at 12:28 am
[EDITOR'S NOTE: non-sensical drivel removed, as we already got enough of that with his first post. Seriously man, step away from the computer - big people are talking here]
October 26th, 2008 at 12:51 am
succesful broker..uhm..seriously dude, the FBI has nothing to do with pyramid schemes, that would be the FTC taking care of it.. learn your law enforcement agencies.
Second, you need an actual business to become an LLC, you have to be licensed, and registered. Signing up for MLM does not make you a business owner, you can’t go down to the chamber of commerce where you live and say ‘give me a business license, I joined an online MLM scheme and want to get my LLC’, they’ll just laugh at you (probably point fingers while laughing as well). So while you’re learning about law enforcement agencies, look up some business law as well.
just when ya think you’ve heard it all, another rejected Jerry Springer guest raves about STE..lol
October 26th, 2008 at 1:07 am
voting for Obama, huh itsme? nothing needed to comment but hard not to bc you are a complete fool. i do have a real biz, i did register it, i am very seasoned in criminal justice as well as business as it relates to sales and marketing. again, how has my uncle made millions with AmWay if these types of biz models are scams and why has AmWay been around for so long if it is a scam… and yes the FBI does get involved to investigate as well as the FTC.
also, we are enrolling businesses who have attorneys that look over everygthing… i’m done, you as well as every person that thinks STE is a scam, the joke is on you!
October 26th, 2008 at 5:11 am
listen succesfful broker..er.. or should I call you Joe, since your typing is exactly the same as his…
Amway is legit now after major lawsuits they lost in federal court. They are part of the reason there are laws for MLM’s these days.
Second, you can’t possibly register shop to earn as your business, you don’t own it, or any part of it, so try a better b.s. excuse there
you’re problem is, you think everyone is dumber than you are, when you come face to face with those with a brain who don’t fall for your crap, you squirm, go way off topic to avoid the issue, try to confuse everyone, very simular to MCCAIN who hasn’t touched on a single issue, and can’t even hire a real plumber to play joe the plumber (I won’t even get into the fake attacks on mccain supporters, they’re paying for that stuff already). Personally, I could see McCain joining ScamToEarn, it’s right up his alley..hahahahahaha
“I’m still waiting for all you so called STE lovers who had your so called lawyers do all this investigating to answer the questions I’ve asked… in case you missed them, HERE THEY ARE AGAIN…
1. why would a supposedly real company claiming to be based in las vegas regisdter it’s websites with people in Florida (and one ‘foundation’ that doesn’t actually exist, aka the Nox Foundation)?
2. who is Matthew Whiteshield of Penbroke Pines, Florida that all but shoptoearn.net is registered to?
3. Why would they need multiple websites? and why deid they try to use shoptoearn.org when they aren’t an organization?
4. Why doesn’t the company honor refund requests within 30 days as they claim they will? anyone who tries to contact them for a refund within the stated 30 days, only finds the conact information and phone numbers don’t work.
5. Why has the Las Vegas Chamber OF Commerice not heard of shop to earn or it’s ‘owners/founders’?
6. Why would a company’ that claims to have started in early 2008, display ‘testamonials’ going back to 2006 and 2007?
the testimonials all state shoptoearn.net, which was registered in 2005 as a domain name, but they used shoptoearn.org throughout 2006 and 2007.
7. why would a respectable company, want to use someone like Matthew Whiteshield, who’s email address is whitey@fdwhitey.com he owns fdwhitey.com), who has porn pictures, video’s, and stories about beastiality and rape on his site’s forums? (you can google links to all of it). This guy is supposed to be a firefighter and paramedic as well (glad I don’t live in his district).
8. what is shopsaveearn.net all about? it’s been online since 2006, same ‘owners’, siular scheme to sop to earn. Even says ‘a group of shop to earn brokers’ on the site! What company holds ’seminars’ for investors? seriously.. what a joke. Again, it’s registered to Matthew Whiteshield.. this guy seems to ahve more stake in shop to earn than those who claim they ‘developed the program for ten years’. After seeingthe porn this guy houses on his own website, I’d believe the only thing he’s developed is a bad case of crotch itch.
9. How does a company maintain over a 50% customer base that isn’t a part of the program itself, when only the ‘brokers’ are buying the products? Amway, MAry Kay, etc. all focus on actual products, they didn’t always, but they do now, keeping them within the legality of an MLM, unlike shop to earn. And don’t come up with ‘their selling you a website’, because they aren’t, it’s their website, they jsut create a genereic landing page, you own absolutley nothing, and are paying them hundreds for something you can get free (and legal) everywhere else.
10. How does a company call an affiliate commision ‘cash back’, when it is nothing of the sort? they earn commision on the sales, and give you a much smaller percentage, calling it cash back so it looks nicer to you. People who have no idea what a website is, or what an affiliate program is, believe this nonsense. Check into the affliate programs of every store shop to earn uses, they’ll tell you flat out you get a commision, not cash back, no rebates, COMMISION.. totally taxable too, doesn’t matter who made the purchase. I’m an affiliate of about half the stores shop to earn uses, you can claim from today tillt he end of time that ist’s cash back, it isn’t. Shop to earn calls it cash back to help sucker people in, it’s a ’sales tactic’, like when car dealers make people think their getting a special deal on a new car, when they really aren’t, the price is so over book, they can deduct thousands and throw in extra’s without coming close to losing a commision on anything, but people will believe they are getting a special on it. ‘and if you order int he next 10 minutes, you get a second set free!’… same nonsense.. you aren’t getting anything free, in fact, your paying extra shipping and tax on what they call free, which is what they were planning to sell all along.
another good and common catch is ‘100% refund if not happy’.. hahahaha.. my favorite, cause they will always find a reason why they can’t give you a refund, or you can’t contact them to get the refund (much like shop to earn does).
October 26th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
you have too much time pal. again, everyone i am involved with in STE is making great money. i’ve made fortunes in the mortgage biz, then auto finance, then unsecured financing, then debt settlement and now i no longer have to work for anyone. just bc you couldn’t do well with this doesn’t mean it’s a scam. and i still will say, my uncle is still making millions with AmWay. all you have to say is that they have had their fair share of lawsuits… how many other companies have had lawsuits? every company buddy! so what is your point?
PS: you probable call fahrenheit 911 a documentary didn’t you? lol…
October 26th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
succesful.. stay in high school.. you still have A LOT to learn
October 26th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Finance degree from University of Central Florida…. i can keep goin from high school down if you are interested… all great schools, all private… you are the guy who always looks at the glass half empty like all liberals do(i can just tell by the way you write and express your opinions) you are a clone of michael moore or bill maher… why can’t you just say, this is not for me but good luck to those who succeed. why say anything else?
October 26th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
WHY? just answer this… why can’t people like you just be happy for people who succeed. i never stole from anyone, i’ve done good by everyone in my life. i’m not trying to screw anyone and am actually an extremely good person. why look for the bad when you have just as much time to look at all the good? i’ll never understand that mentality!
October 27th, 2008 at 9:04 am
successful broker,
How much have you made from RECRUITING and how much have you made from actual shopping?
Some people are going to make money in this scam by scamming/recruiting. GUARANTEED that more people lose money than make it.
BTW, why did Walmart.com get out of the scam to earn website?
If I were you I would want to change your webpage of YOUR business because it looks to similar to everyone else’s. Don’t you want it to stand out? I mean it is YOUR business. Oh, that’s right you can’t run your business like you want. You can’t even promote it on the web because scam to earn won’t let you. Doesn’t sound like you control your business at all????????
October 27th, 2008 at 11:33 am
successful broker,
Do any of the things that Itsme wrote concern you? They would concern me, thats for sure.
October 27th, 2008 at 11:38 am
All the people on these blogs seem to only care about money and dont give a sht about there character and integrity at all. Just like a politician, they totally disregard whats right in front of them and only talk about how much money they are making.
October 27th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
EXACTLY!! Successful broker says he is not trying to screw anyone but this is the reality: If he claims to be intelligent and successful he should be looking out for the average guy. He is making money off of people who may not know any better. Time and time again, you hear about people getting conned out of their money. The day WILL come when STE will go under, for whatever reason, and think of all the people who will not recoup their money because they have just signed up. Once again, if I want to shop online and earn rebate money there are many sites that I can go to that have a free sign-up. This is NOT a new concept! If you are honest successful broker, why not mention this in your presentation so you will be presenting all of the facts. Assume that the average guy does not know that he can get these rebates for free. Oh yeah, if you tell them that how will you make any money!!
October 27th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
that’s exactly it Callie. People don’t know any better, they aren’t aware of affilaite programs and how they work, so they think Shop To Earn has some special deals going on with these stores, which they don’t. They haven’t a clue what a ‘website’ really is, so shop to earn says you get a free website! and they believe it.
The people who buy into this then come here defending STE all keep complaining about banks and loan companies handing out money, and being a huge factor in our bad economy, yet, they are the ones who don’t think things through and do their homework who look for these variable rate loans and mortgages, not caring that there’s much larger payments alter on. It’s not all the banks fault, people were stupid enough to take these loans, jsut like their stupid enough to get involved with something like STE without doing real research and considering the possible consequences. They take advantage of the unknowledged, just like banks and loan companies did (which they post here complaining about).
These are the same people who think reducing all taxes is a great idea, not thinking about how some taxes are needed, as it’s spread out, abd brings down long term costs, we actually spend less money than with tax cuts on everything and prices going up to make up the differance.
This has been how pyramid schemes have worked since they began, STE is no differant. And when STE is gone and some new scam comes along, you’ll see all the same people saying the same things about how great that scam is jsut liek their trying to do now with STE.
here’s a fact.. if someone does so well with a scheme like this, made millions of dollars, do you really believe they would be bothering to keep doing it over and over? they already have more money than they could spend and wouldn’t care, they’d be out having fun, not busy recruiting people for another scheme. People start and join these schemes with the idea of retiring early and not having to work again. It’s a lead point in trying to sell the schemes to people, or they’d add to the seminars ‘and when STE is no longer, we’ll let you know about our new program so you can join that’
October 27th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
I’m baaaack. Joe O. here, I’m not “succesful broker” the blogger, but I am also a succesful STE broker. I just passed $50,000 and I have 885 people in my group in less than 5 months. Part-time work, and its been a lot of fun!
Just because some angry web blogger does some BS research and can’t find what he is looking for and then posts a list of questions that no one feels like answering doesn’t mean he is the judge and jury and the case is closed. If you look up ANY closely-held, private business you will not find any pertinent information. ZERO. Unless it needs to be licensed or registered like and insurance agency or bank. Even then its very limited. If a company is an “S” corp, like STE is, the Fed id# is a personal social security number. Therefore its not available. Period. Move on. Ask your CPA and he will tell you the same.
And even though STE has taken in over $25,000,000 already, its can be an “S” corp forever.
The reason why STE is safe, secure and totally legit is because that all 60,000 website owners to date were NOT recruited. They were sold a product. This product is a web-portal that enables you to get cash back. Plain and simple. Let me repeat that:
legally and technically and however you want to skin this cat – people are buying a web-portal/cash back product, therefore it is not recruiting. Sorry to disappoint you.
You may disagree with this fact, and you may think it’s an over-priced web-portal, but that’s your opinion. 60,000 people liked it and bought one. Its a free country. They will have 300,000 people by the end of 2009. You make think it can be done for free, but the free web-portals do NOT have the same high level pay-outs. They keep a few % points for their profits. Which is fine. That’s THEIR business model.
If you’ve done your research, you will plainly see that the real future of Shop to Earn / Shop to Earth is the on-line Earth friendly store. This is THEIR OWN EARTH FRIENDLY PRODUCTS STORE. They are literally giving away all of the cash-back from the famous retail stores, every penny so that they can drive people to their “Earth” store. Pretty neat idea isn’t it? We all know that this e-commerce game is about driving traffic to your site.
The goal is to have a massive following to their earth-friendly on-line store “Shop to Earth” that carries thousands of brand-name products. NOT proprietary juices or scientific super foods, just mainstream, popular brands that make 100% organic foods and biodegradeable detergents and such. They give 15-30% cash back on brands with loyal followers of Avalon Organics, Zone Diet Bars, Cliff Bars, Twinlab, Kiss My Face, True Green etc. Right now, because they are new in the fulfillment industry, the prices aren’t super-low. Maybe they are even marked up 15% only to get 25% back? Whatever. They still have competitive pricing compared to your local health food stores and the same dry goods at any Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods market. Of course they are buying in bulk just like any distributor and are probably making 40-55% on these popular products – just like Trader Joe’s and any local health food store is entitled to.
So the business model is pretty darn smart. Get 1 million people involved with their own web-portal, and every time they log on they have “SHOP TO EARTH’ staring them in the face. Maybe they spend some money there and get themselves a little healthier, maybe they don’t. But if only half the people spent a mere 1,000 a year that’s $500,000,000 in sales and with a 40-50% profit margin, they make $250 million dollars and will be the largest health food store on the internet. And this can all happen in the net few years. Imagine a company that has half a billion in sales and NO advertising costs!!! This why people like me and my group can make millions as well.
So a legit business? ABSOLUTLEY. Finanically secure future? ABSOLUTLEY.
This has been thought out and planned out by a lot smarter people than you and me. So either sit back and get involved or watch on the sidelines and hope your bad karma somehow will affect ste. Don’t be such a loser!!
October 27th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Joe.. FACT: Nevada AND Las Vegas law states (and you can confirm it yourself by calling).. ALL business, public or private, using a Las Vegas address (like Shop To Earn is), M”UST be registered and licensed in Las Vegas for public record.
secondly, my CPA has been approached by people wanting to talk STE with her, and she shut the door in their faces. She has clients who have been involved in very simular, almost identical schemes, and went broke after thinking they were getting rich. She has clients that joined these schemes using their business names, and now has to provision money from their accounts to cover their lawsuit settlement payments, and in some cases, bankruptcy from when the schemes tucked tail and split with all the money they never paid out.
and again, IT’S NOT CASH BACK. you’re purchasing through STE’s affiuliate link, in which they get a commission on the sale. They take that commision and give you a tiny percentage, and call it cash back because idiots like you have no clue how affiliate programs work and fall for what these morons tell you. To add, when you try to explain to the IRS that you removed a portion of the income statement because you already paid tax when you purchased items, they will laugh at you until you show them an itemized reciept equalling the amount you left out to the penny.
You’re also not buying a product, you’re paying them for the use of their site to shop therough their affiliate links. You do not own a damn thing, and they can very easily, at any time, disable your account, keep all your money, and access your checking account or credit card you may ahve used to sign up with, you had to have given them your SS# or federal tax ID number so they can file their tax forms and send you a 1099 as well, THIS IS HOW IDENTITY THEFT OCCURS. You’re not giving this information to a secure company, using a secure network, it’s a bunch of guys scamming people with a generic, a monkey can make it website.
The ‘goal’ is simply for them to collect sign up money, and commision on all the stuff they force you to buy from shop to earth (and then some). This does not make a smart business model, it makes a SCAM, just like if you send a letter to 200 people each with a dolalr in it, and tell them to send it to $200 people, putting their own address in the letter as one to send a dollar to, you would be making thousands in no time as the letter gets circulated to more and more people.. that’s a scam, and people fall for it! whoever started the chain made a fortune, doesn’t make it a business model, just a scam.
and stop comparing STE to actual stores, they are two totally differant things. Stores aren’t trying to get people to sign up other people, they only sell products. If they need someone to sell, they hire someone, pay them a salary and usually commision on top of salary, the saleman doesn’t pay the store to be their salesman.
secure future? there is no such thing. major corperations are going under. Chrystler motors is either merging with GM or going out completely, banks are going under left and right, nothing is secure, especially a scam like this. These scams come and go, this isn’t the first, it’s not an original idea, and it will be gone rather quickly and a new one of the exact same thing will come along.
Joe, you just keep proving you know absolutely nothing about business law, business ethics, morals, or values.
BTW, GNC is the largest health food martetter, and they give their affiliates 20-40% commission, and it’s free to become an affiliate.
October 27th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
I almost forgot joe, you should show people YOUR shop to earn page.. http://shoptoearn.net/brll and not http://shoptoearn.net/aptitle
not that either are impressive, having to spend hundreds to get a few dolalrs back when you would have saved more buying direct or having a direct affiliate account.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Joe Zero,
You keep posting your same BS on different websites and lying over and over again. Don’t you have a Giants game to attend? Don’t you have titles to fix because of the wonderful real estate boom we had? I’m sure you saved and invested that money wisely. Have you guessed who I am Joe?
People don’t even want to be around when you walk in a room. HELLO????? Don’t you get the hint????? You’re a zero and that’s why it gets quiet when you come around.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I’ve spent the past hour reading this blog after being approached by a “friend” about joining STE. What I’ve noticed is a pattern of under-educated people supporting STE. Their rhetoric and theories are flawed. Sure, there are those that will make money but it’s through recruiting and has nothing to do with having your own shopping site. If you want to make money shopping each month try microsofts live.com. You can earn anywhere from 5-40% cashback on sites you probably already shop from.
Oh and successful broker, UCF is a public school. Moron.
Paul, thanks for having this site. And a brain.
October 29th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
JoeO says…
You people are just completely insane. You have no idea what life is about and surely have no idea about STE. so while I am making people money, you are spewing crap. You are comparing ste with envelopes with a dollar in it? get a life
October 29th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Can’t actually refute any of the questions/points brought up here, so you’ll just lash out at everyone, eh? If you had 1/2 the intelligence you seem to think you have, you’d be able to actually discuss and debate intelligently.
Care to counter anything I’ve said here – or that anyone else has – or do you just want to wallow in your smug and hurl insults?
October 29th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
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ls, MN J. thnk y… ts s smpl s tht. wld lv t s wh ths gys r wh hv nthng bttr t d thn nslt thrs wh d wll. blv n th lw f ttrctn nd th d tht wht y pt t t th nvrs, y wll gt bck. lt thm kp spwng nd lt s kp rnng mny nd mkng dffrnc n ppl’s lvs. cn’t tll y hw mny thnk y’s hv gttn frm fmly nd frnds fr shwng thm ST! kp n kpn n!
October 29th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
I like to molest small woodland creatures. Just thought you all should know.
October 29th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
You were warned: contribute something (other than self-congratulatory masturbatory rhetoric), or you can have your posts tailored to suit my entertainment needs.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
i’d love to meet you paul. you live in florida? i would love to see what a person like you looks like.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
then love to see what you would look like after someone like me meets you
October 29th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
FACT: Donald Trump once said about 2 years ago that if he didn’t do well in real estate, his next venture would be multi-level businesses. so get a life paul… you’re just pissed you make no money, and i mean real money pal.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I, too, got suckered in on a drunk night on my patio by my next door neighbor who told me about a “great” travel website business. I gave my $450, got my website address and made a total of $16 bucks. I say “made”, but really, I’m in the red about $604 because I ordered business cards from their only “approved” printer at a cost of $50 and the monthly site fee of $40 x’s 3=$120. Subtract my whopping $16 bucks and there you have it. It all depended on my signing up other people, recruiting! It’s a “legitimate” business if legitimate means taking my money up front, giving me nothing back, and having to make money by signing up others. If that’s what the deal is, they should have to state that clearly and plainly in the presentation. Why don’t they? Why doesn’t Shop To Earn? Same reason….horsepuckey! As for Paul, he is an intelligent man who knows a scam when he sees one and for you people attacking him, get a life. Paul, you can come to my house anyday to discuss MLM’s over drinks on my waterfront property in South Florida and we can have a laugh over these people. MUAH!! Keep up the great work.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
a) I can’t be held responsible for your brutally honest outbursts. Even if your lustful attractions to wildlife are illegal in most (if not all) states, I really do appreciate your truthiness.
b) Did you actually just make threats against me on a publicly available internet site? Man, that’s just the cherry on top of the heaping fucking mound of proof that you’d be intellectually challenged by a sack of hammers. Retarded hammers.
c) You are not Donald Trump. Even if his entire empire fell tomorrow, he’s still got millions upon millions of dollars to fall back on while you have a lubed-up marmoset and a chip on your shoulder. Go die.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
joe o. says:
Here’s the bottom line:
These STE people are selling web-portals that give them cash back. These web-portals work fine. You may think they are over-priced or there are better deals out there, but so what? That’s your opinon. People Buy Mercedes Benzes and yet Toyotas work just as well and are less than half the price. People buy what they want to buy.
Example:
I am a member of a very nice Fitness center. It costs $60/month. If I get a friend to join the Fitness center for a 1 year deal, I get 3 months free. So if I keep doing this 4 times a year I get a free membership. Is that a scam?
If I go on and on about getting in shape and feeling and looking better, am I sellling him a false dream? ( becuase let’s face it, 95% of most people don’t achieve their fitness goals)
Friend #1 may work out 7 days a week, lose weight and live a long and healthy life, while Friend #2 never shows up at all and wasted his $700. Should he call the FTC? Did I screw him over? C’mon now!
These STE guys are very bright and have made extra sure that their model is 100% solid. Better start dealing with that reality, because it seems to really annoy you.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
lets not forget, if Donald Trump started a MLM, it would be a legal one, not like ScamToEarn. Those so gung ho over STE don’t want to hear what’s illegal and unmoral about the program, like most criminals and scam artists don’t want to hear why what they do is wrong, they know it’s wrong and find any excuse they can to make it seem right.
Payul, we’re dealing with a couple of ‘kids’.. no business professional would act the way they do or say the things they say. IT’s a perfect example of idiots thinking they know more than those who have been there and done that, probably longer than they’ve been on this earth.
btw Paul, I haven’t said it yet, but good blog here.. not becuase of the nonsense, but because it’s still here when most of the others forgot their first amendment rights and caved to the supposed ‘STE LAWYER’ threats..lol If this blog teaches just one person to be more careful and really look into these type of programs before signing their lives away, you’ve done your job well, remember that!
October 30th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
I guess you people are still here doing nothing better than trying to prove how illegal and wrong STE is, while we are still making money and helping others do the same.
Where is the logic of it all?
Why don’t you wait until your premonitions come true and then come back to say “I told you so”?
I’ll tell you why, because it’s not going to happen any time soon.
I understand your motives are truthful and humanitarian, you are the crusaders trying to warn people about this company before they lose their life savings of $448 and go bankrupt!
Really people, what a waste of time.
Like it or not, we are doing better than ever despite negative blogs like this because thank God there are people out there who know how to do their homework and don’t pay attention to this nonsense.
The Internet is a great place to get out all your frustrations in total anonymity, but it also is a wonderful vehicle to make a great living.
Which of the two you choose is a perfect example of the kind of person you are.
And Paul, you will probably choose not to post this with excuses like it lacks substance or some other pretext, why don’t you let your readers decide that?
What are you afraid of? The worst that can happen is that your blog will go unnoticed and you will no longer have a place to go cry with others cheering you up for your “valiant endeavors.”
Poor baby, not enough sympathy at home? Get a life, man!
October 30th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Because this blog is not – and never was – a democracy, you twit. The only reason you even have a voice here is because I allow it.
The attitude of every single STE proponent so far is reminiscent of the 80’s. Wake-up call, kids: you are not Gordon Gekko. Unless one of you is Micheal Douglas, in which case you should really be ashamed of yourself. This “greed is good” attitude is the reason our economy here in the states is in the shitter. The concept that “as long as it makes money and I’m not going to jail for it, it must be ok” is totally fucked.
Also, please tell me that you recognize the irony in posting here just to tell us all what losers we are for posting here.
October 31st, 2008 at 12:09 am
based on Paul’s account, it seems that playing the stock market is more of a scam than anything, right paul? PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION. do you find the good in anything or do you always try to find the negative in everything? i would hate to live life in your shoes buddy. oh and by the way, my very first broker i enrolled just started making $550 a day and she is a single mom needing extra money to pay for her daughter to go to the University of Florida, i.e. books, housing, other expenses. AND I SHOULD FEEL LIKE I AM SCAMMING SOMEONE? do yourself a favor and be happy and positive for a day paul!
October 31st, 2008 at 12:16 am
Playing the stock market doesn’t involve fleecing friends and family and isn’t illegal. Next question please?
I only find the negative in negative things. Like STE.
Don’t worry about me – you can’t possibly imagine how much joy I derive from this, truly.
October 31st, 2008 at 8:31 am
I guess the logic is finally sinking in here and cooler heads are prevailing.
STE is not about recruiting, not even close. It’s all about selling cash-back shopping web-portals. When you refer someone you earn $100.00 You do get that $100 every time, and keep in mind you do NOT need to spend any money on the “Earth” side to get this $100 referral fee.
As long as the product (web-portals) work and people get their cash back for shopping, STE will never have any legal issues. Who could complain? What would the complaint even be? That they didn’t shop enough to get their money’s worth? That they couldn’t refer anyone and earn a few extra $100? That is not STE’s fault.
Who cares where they are domiciled and whether you can find an address? We all deal with internet vendors all the time. I often deal with Travelocity when I travel, I spend thousands on every trip, everything usually goes pretty smoothly, I have no idea where they are located , it may be India for all I know. I can’t be bothered to even care. I get what I pay for and I’m happy.
So far 60,000 STE web-portals have been sold in the last 7 months and all is well. Why would the FTC or anyone, even you bloggers, be concerned about STE if the cash-back web portals that people buy are working? This is not even worth discussing.
Joe
October 31st, 2008 at 12:02 pm
again JOE.. the ‘portals’ are not a product. and the ‘cash-back’ is given to those who are within the program, which is exactly what makes it ILLEGAL.
When you purchase through travelocity, you’re not paying for a place in the program, you’re not making money when sdomeone else signs up under you and does the same.
You can’t seem to get this concept into your brain.
You also can’t seem to calculate how much money you spend with STE in order to get any money ‘back’, or that tyou’d save more money than you gegt back by legit means elsewhere, at no cost. You don’t comprehend the thought that STE can go under tommorrow, you can lose everything in lawsuits, and so can your friends and family that you signed up, who will take it out on YOU when it happens. It’s a bad idea to do business with friends and fmaily to begin with, things like STE are even worse. You apparenlty don’t care much about anyone except yourself, and you’ve made that rather clear.
October 31st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Hey Itsme,
What are you talking about? You are COMPLETELY clueless about STE. You really are. You have been blogging negative stuff for months and you do not even know what you are talking about!!!!
AND you have absolutley zero reading comprehension. I was using Travelocity as an example of people dealing with companies on the web in general terms. Did you even graduate grammar school?
And why aren’t the web-portals, that give cash-back for each and every purchase, a product? Because YOU say so? Your opinions are worthless because you can’t even keep focus and give a rational and organized rebuttal.
People are buying shopping web-portal (product) that gives them cash back when they shop at over 600 retail stores. WHAT ABOUT THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND??? If you buy a website portal and spend $200 at drugstore.com you will get 10% = $20 cash back. What exactly about this makes for a scam? Nothing!
then you wrote: and the ‘cash-back’ is given to those who are within the program, which is exactly what makes it ILLEGAL.
This makes no sense at all. What ‘program’ are you even talking about? Do you understand that if you buy an STE web-portal you get your cash back for shopping, even if you NEVER refer anyone ever? AND even if you never spend 1 dollar ever on shop to earth?
Obviously this is all way above your head OR you just like to spew out negative crap for fun. Its as if you are smoking dope all day and just typing ’scam and illegal’ for fun.
Move on. STE is sound and secure.
October 31st, 2008 at 3:20 pm
AGAIN JOE ZERO,
How much of your income is from shopping and how much is from recruiting? It’s about recruiting!!!!!!!! IDIOT.
Go make more money from your loser title company that’s tankin’ so bad.
Same goes for you Sylvia. How much from recruiting and how much from shopping? Your punk asses won’t answer any questions that are put towards you because of the truth, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!
Any person that you look up on scam to earn has minimal to no shopping and if they’ve made any money, they have it under their referrals section. You guys are such scammers and if you actually were honest and talked about scamtoearn for what it really is people would have JUST A LITTLE BIT more respect. When you try and say a product is being sold and therefore it’s all good makes us understand what a true sleezy TITLE guy you truly are.
How about you successful broker…..If it’s not about recruiting. How much have you made from recruiting? How much have you made from shopping? Please don’t threaten me like you did Paul. You may frighten me away!!!!!!!!!!!
October 31st, 2008 at 3:32 pm
What part don’t you understand? Go to http://search.live.com/cashback/ and find drugstore.com and you get 10% cash back on purchases for FREE. What exactly does that sound like FREE. Your friends get the same rebates but then Joe, successful broker, and Sylvia don’t get $100 commission for scamming a friend. Wait, then your friend won’t have to spend $100 minimum monthly for overpriced products. Then Joe, successful broker, and Sylvia won’t get their cut of that anyways. What about the annual fee????
This is one example of a FREE website that offers the same cash back and did I mention for FREE.
There is absolutely positively a difference between people like Joe Zero, successful broker, and Sylvia to good people like Paul, Wake Up, and itsme…. It’s called personalities. We enjoy when people save their money and make better choices in life for themselves and it doesn’t need to benefit US. We enjoy it if it makes them happy. It makes Joe Zero happy when he gets his greedy little hands on a $100 just for recruiting a friend into something that he could’ve offered them for FREE. Your pathetic Joe, successful broker, and Sylvia.
October 31st, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Since when does making, or receiving money mean “earning” money? In my world, there must be a “value for value” transaction.
October 31st, 2008 at 5:52 pm
https://esos.state.nv.us/SOSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/CorpSearch.aspx
Good points both sides, though I think the name calling is a little childish. I found many points interesting and scary at the same time.
1. How could shop to earn be claiming to be a Nevada Corp and not be registered??? WOW. (although all corporations do not also have to be licensed, that depends on the specific trade).
After 2 minutes of research I did find they ARE registered as SHOP 2 EARN in Nevada and I have pasted the link, so that settles that.
Though the no phone number is still a bit to grasp.
2. I believe it was PA mom who talked about the 50% of products being purchased by non members. While this solution may be unethical, it will certainly be used. Im sure the $100 minimum can simply be purchased by the spouses of the brokers. If 50% of the brokers are married that would solve that issue.
3. The claims of big money seem out of touch with the commission setup. Someone who is in shop to earn tells me you could not have made $50,000 with only 800 people in your down line and gave me the 200 + 200 point breakdown. 800 brokers X 200 points=160000 points. 160,000/4800 (score)=33 scores. 33 X $550 (amount of score)=$18k or so, still a good investment on $448, but not the exaggerated $50k claims.
4. Shopsaveearn.net and shoptoearn.org have nothing to do with Shoptoearn.net. the first 2 were set up by brokers in shoptoearn.net but i would assume without knowledge or permission from the company itself. So I think we should stop harping on this issue as well.
5. MLM’s are legal, we all agree with that. And a legal MLM doesnt make you a bad person if you join (how many people like their stockbroker today?) The question that im looking for is absolute proof that this is illegal and we seem to have some strong suggestions that shoptoearn is not set up correctly, i wish someone was a true MLM attorney and could give us a straight answer once and for all.
Please notice that I did not attack anyone. (although i may not receive any feedback becuase of this, haha) The first 4 points are all 100% facts so they really can’t be disputed (though i know someone will try) Point 5 is really the only issue I have and would love an answer on.
Thanks everyone and have a great day.
October 31st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Joe… AGAIN.. the PORTAL is not a product, and you are NOT buying one, it’s their site, not yours, if it was yours, you’d be able to host it, you’d be able to change things on it, you’d be able to design it how you want. YOU SARE PAYING THEM TO USE THEIR WEBSITE, NOTHING ISD OWNED BY YOU.
and giving ‘cash back’ does not make it legal. having custmers buying actual products, making up over 50% of the companies income, is what would make it legal.
Just because some moron jons a bunch of affiliate programs and tells idiots like you ‘it’s a product’ doesn’t make it a product, it jsut proves how uneducated YOU are.
no something like travolocity, you’re buying airlines tickets and whatever through them, and they are providing a SERVICE, which they are legally entitled to add a service charge for. Travilocity doesn’t sell a product, they offer a sservice. STE doesn’t sell a product, office depot, drugstore.com, etc.. sell products.
and AGAIN, the ‘cash back’ is sales commision STE made from their affiliate programs, and they simply give you a portion of it, no matter what you want to believe it is, or what you want to call it, it’s a SALES COMMISION, NOT CASH BACK OR A REBATE. cash back and rebates come from the store itself, or the manufacturer directly, in seperate chackes, as they have to file it seperatly on their taxes as a cash-out. Most all of them use a service to do this with, where you have to send in rebate coupons and such (unless is an instant rebate, which is really a sale price deduction, they jsut make it sound nicer by doing it as a rebate, it;s a promotional tool).
STE is NOT doing anything original, in fact, this is one of the oldest scams there is, there have been hundreds ientical too it, and will be hundreds more, they all get shut down within a couple of years, or they switch over to something else once they get caught, or are near being caught.
so you go on believing what you want, since your credability is non-existant after you’ve contradicted yourself so many times on these blogs already. Even with your psots right here to read over and over you forget half of what you’ve said and say something differant later on.
I also love the ‘monthly site fee’ STE charges everyone who signs up… there’s nothing to maintain, they ahve $9.00 per month hosting, and the site they setup is a generic portal anyone can download for free, upload to any cheap or free webhost, and poof, they ahve the same site for themsevles.
October 31st, 2008 at 8:51 pm
More mis-information and deception from the negative bloggers that hate to see people healthier and wealthier!!
I went to that supposedly free “search live”site, its a microsoft-owned scam. Not only is it not free, the stores that offer discounts and 10% cash back are MORE EXPENSIVE than the STE sites. Almost EVERY product was higher. AND you don’t even shop at the drugstore.com site, you are at the MICROSOFT site, you can see this clear as day in the address bar AND they only offer a handful of their products – I bet now that its November you can get a great deal on Sunblock! LOL. Microsoft takes your credit card whereas with STE the actual store takes your CC info. There’s the proof that they are the go-between.
With STE you actually shop on the stores REAL site and have access to EVERYTHING they sell at 10% cash back. All sales and discounts apply and THEN you still get 10% back.
Now I see why some of you neg bloggers assume that STE the prices on STE are marked up, its because that’s what the supposedly FREE sites do.
If you read the fine print, it talks about their fees:
You Pay Microsoft.
7.1 Charges. This section 7 applies in all situations in which you directly pay us. If you pay a company other than us for the service, then the charges and billing terms are as stated by the other company. Even if you do not pay for the service, you may still incur charges incidental to using the service; for example, charges for Internet access, mobile text messaging, or other data transmission.
7.2 Payment. When you create a billing account, you enter your payment method. You must be authorized to use the payment method. You authorize us to charge you for the service using your payment method and for any paid feature of the service for which you choose to sign-up or use while this contract is in force. You will pay service charges in advance. We may charge you a different amount than what you approved. If it is a greater amount, we will tell you the amount and the date of the charge at least 10 days before we make the charge. Also, we may charge you up to the amount you have approved, and notify you in advance of the difference. We may bill you for more than one of your prior billing periods together. If we informed you that the service will be provided indefinitely or automatically renewed, we may automatically renew your service and charge you for any renewal term.
7.3 Updates to Your Billing Account. You must keep all information in your billing account current, including your billing address and the expiration date of your credit card. You can access your billing account at https://billing.microsoft.com, where you can make changes to your billing account. You may change your payment method at any time. If you tell us to stop using your payment method, we may cancel your service. Your notice to us will not affect charges we submit to your billing account before we reasonably could act on your request.
October 31st, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Hello Unbiased:
Wow, finally an intelligent and logical person is here to join me. What a breath fo fresh air! Please allow me to respond to your valid points. I think I may be the one you reference with regards to the $50,000. Trust me, I have indeed made this $50k in less than 5 months, with a little over 900 in my group.
How? Let me explain, without boring you with too many details. First off, Yes you get 200 points person, but there there also are shopping points! and these add up quickly. These non-sense negative people do not want to acknowledge that this is really about shopping and residual shopping points, but we can’t expect these whackos to open their minds and listen. If they ever sat and listened to a 35 minute ‘STE tour call’ they would see what this all about.
So, with regards to shopping points, if each member saves an average of $30-40 a month (and people who join usually start shopping hard and fast asap) that’s and extra 30,000+ points per month for this most recent month. Granted it would be less during the first 4 months since I didn’t have 900 people from the start, so this probably added an extra 80,000-100,000 points – that add up quickly. Also, the first 6 scores per month actually include a $50 gas bonus, so that’s an extra $300 per month for the last 5 months. PLUS every time someone you directly referred scores you get a $50 “win/win” bonus, this is how the company pays you for recruiting talent. I have probably made an extra $1,500 per month with these win/win bonuses. So that’s another $6,000 or so. And lastly, there is a “fast-start’” bonus that pays you for referring 10 people within 30 days. This pays a minimum of $4,100 in the first month. So I bought 3 web-sites, my own, one for my wife and one with an LLC – which they do not advise since it can be a lot to manage.
The residual income comes from having thousands of people saving $30-40 a month and these points traveling upwards – AS LONG AS YOU ARE BALANCED! Which is a talent in itself. So far so good.
Point #5, yes of course MLm’s are legal, and there are no guarantees in life, but i hav etravelled to Florida and met these owners and spoke with them multiple times…all is well and this is a home run. Regards!!!
October 31st, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Your such a false person Mr. Zero. Click on the stores section then find drugstore.com. Click on go to store and guess where it takes you…….. http://www.drugstore.com/?aid=337961 I’ve used live search cash back NUMEROUS times and had the money put into my Paypal account. No problems!!! I didn’t have to pay $448 to join, didn’t have to pay $100 a month, or didn’t have to pay an annual fee. Best of all, I didn’t have to scam friends and people who can generally not afford the $448 fee into joining just so I could have a $100.
Sure seems like drugstore.com to me. “More mis-information and deception from the negative bloggers that love to see people put $100 a scam into their own pockets.”
Post your numbers like you’ve been asked a bunch of times Joe zero. Tell us how much from recruiting and how much from shopping. You absolutely won’t because you know it will prove our point of, “IT’S ALL ABOUT RECRUITING!!!!!” We’ve only asked you for about a month and a half to post it but you continue to avoid the subject. Gee, I wonder why?????????
Joe, prior to them yanking the checks from their website I saw your numbers and they weren’t even close to what your claiming. Nice try!!! Go to ANOTHER website, once again, but try to be more honest. It’s gotta hurt that the Title business isn’t working out!!!!!!!!!! AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UNBIASED,
Please explain how #2 is a fact please? That’s absurd. Most of the people in this, if they’re married, have their spouses involved too. Even so, you’re paying for overpriced products that are going to save the earth. Let me explain something to you about Joe ZERO. He claims all this BS on many different websites in order to LURE people in. People like the creator of this website have nothing to gain monetarily. The only thing we have to gain is to try and WARN people about scams.
By the way, why did walmart.com back out Joe?
November 1st, 2008 at 12:44 am
Walmart is losing money hand over fist and will soon be cancelling all cash back programs. Read the news once in a while. STE was slamming them for six-figures a month in cash back due to the 60,000 members, so they bailed out. They reported this in the NY times last week. Personally I have never even been to a Wal-mart in person or on-line. They sell cheap crap and offered 2% back. No loss anyway.
Funny how you change the subject and bring up title insurance all the time, meanhwile my title agency is one the 5th largest in the state. We are domiciled in Northen NJ across from mid-town Manhattan where the average home is $1.2 million. Please look it up!!!
Title premiums in NJ are state regulated and very profitable. Many title agencies have gone belly-up and we have made even more money in this lousy market. I didn’t want to go there, but you keep changing the subject. I have loyal clients and I was getting bored, and STE was a no brainer, so I jumped in. Soon me and dozens of my friends will make more in a month than you make in a year. But I digress.
The real reason I blog back is the blatant lies and exagerrations about STE. But you will never learn. Obviously you are brainwashed and can never accept that a nice, new group of people can make a living by helping each other through a business venture.
I hope you all have a nice Holiday season. You are not worth my time or my intelligence.
November 1st, 2008 at 1:21 am
this is from JOEO’s own shopping page on the portal he has claimed many times to be HIS..
07/22/08
Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC 2.67736E+12 $31.82
1%
$0.32
0
07/22/08
Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC 2.67736E+12 $14.64
1%
$0.15
0
so much for never going to walmart in person or online, eh joe?
November 1st, 2008 at 2:55 am
oh yeah, politics… anyone want change? vote a democrat… lol… you liberals got change… a democratic congress in 2006. and now look at us. lol…
November 1st, 2008 at 10:11 am
successful broker,
I am voting for McCain and am not a Democrat. That’s not the point here because that’s a whole different debate but I, as a Republican, know a scam when I see it. Like I said some of us have no motivation, like you getting a $100 per sign up, but to try and save people money. I probably agree with you on many points, as far as political views, but STE is a duck, period.
Joe “0″,
You can never stop your BS. Here’s YOUR quote, “Personally I have NEVER even been to a Wal-mart in person or on-line.” What’s your definition of NEVER? It must have been one of your co-workers signing on from the same IP address. HAHA!!!!!! Also, I’ve looked all over the NY Times and find nothing about STE and Walmart. I find it hard to believe that they even did an article about this scam, other than to warn people like many websites on the world wide web do. Over the last 12 months WalMart’s stock is up 26.75%. I HIGHLY doubt that Walmart pulls the affiliation program from STE because of 60,000 but keeps other affiliates which gives them ALOT more traffic and business. As a matter of fact the NYTIMES.com has an affiliate link to it. WOW, ANOTHER LIE!!!!!!!!!
itsme,
Great job! Can you post just the last part of his log in so that I can look at it too? I’m very familiar with STE and can tell the true numbers. I’m sure I’ll be able to call him out on even more lies. I had it before but unfortunately can’t find it. DARN!!!!!
November 1st, 2008 at 11:31 am
to wake up joe o,
You are correct on my #2point that I dont know its a fact that the spouses are not involved, but to call it absurd would mean you know for a fact that ALL spouses are involved. I believe my estimate of 50% was fair and unbiased. if you have a better number to agree on im all ears, but since there are no stats available, your claim would be construed as just as absurd as mine. nothing wrong with finding a happy medium of 50%.
as far as joe o and his numbers, i went back to my friend and he agains tell me that you need more like 8000, not 800 people in your downline to make that much on the shopping. he says it can be done, but you are not there yet unless you have some serious shopping going on to the average tune of $1000/mo per person.
would love to know the real story on why walmart left, a shame we can only speculate.
what i find about this blog is that its the far left vs the far right(not political orientation), there are no middle grounds. when no one can agree on anything at all it makes for fun reading but most likely a distortion of the facts on both of sides which i found very quickly on both sides. ie-co not being registered in NV, and the bloated $ claims.
While $448 for a site that you can get for free does seem ridiculous, I believe you are getting more then just the site, you are getting a business opportunity as well. the other sites only allow you the rebate and no chance to make money off other people purchasing, so that is where the value comes in. unless I’m wrong, i believe that is how it works? and i agree that the portal is not a product, which is a requirement for direct selling companies, you need a product. I would think the $100 per month at shop to earth would satisfy that requirement, and it does not have to be purchased by the broker himself. My friend asked me to sign up as one of his “preferred customers” and buy on his site. that i was told would satisfy his requirement of the $100 and the FTC requirement of direct selling to someone not in the commission structure. as far as STE jacking up the prices on the name brand stores, I did a side by side comparison of 1800 petmeds and drugstore.com. going through the STE site and then going directly to the companies websites. they are the same EXACT sites and the same EXACT prices. If you dont believe me please do it yourself first before you call me a liar. thanks prices on the shop to earth sign can 100% be found cheaper elsewhere so there is a big markup on that side.
Seems to be many pros and cons to STE, but i guess we can say that about almost anything
November 1st, 2008 at 12:32 pm
ubiased, this is how an affiliate program works..
they are free to sign up for with most any store where you can shop with them online. you get links containing your affiliate code to place on your website, or with some, anywhere on the internet you have permission to post advertising links. when people click the link and purchase from that store, you get aa sales commision. with some, you get a commision just from people clicking the link itself, and with some that use banner and image links, you get paid per number of impressions as well.. big point here, they pay you, you pay nothing to them.
these affiliate programs also give you a referral fee if others sign up to be affilaites with them (?not all do, but most do), again, nothing paid to them, they pay you, yo uare advertising them and bringing them customers, they don’t expect, or ask you to pay them for this.
All STE has done is join these affiliate programs, and put up a ‘turnkey’ website (yes, that is actually what it is called, turn-key), issuing their own affiliate-type code to those who fork over money to ‘join STE’. They create an acount for you on the STE website, which generates a default page identical to everyone elses, the only thing you can change is an image and a little contact information, you don’t actually own anything, it’s entirely theirs. Their little code keeps track of what you do through their site, while their affilaite codes keep track of what you do on the affiliates sites. They get all the sales commissions and such, and give you a very small portion of that in your STE earnings check, and they call it cash-back as a gimmick to lure people in more, when it’s really jsut a part of their own sales commisions (which is taxable as income, even if Joe won’t admit it).
In Walmarts case, and I’m an affiliate of Walmart, their affilaite program excludes MLM’s and such. MLM’s have to go through Walmart corperate, and having Walmart competitors is a big no no with this. They don’t mind it as an online affiliate, as that is simply jsut advertising on your website, but their program for an online portal and such they are strict. STE didn’t go that route as they wouldn’t be accepted, or it would take to long if they were, they simply signed up as an affiliate, and it took a little time for walmart to see the traffic brought to them from the sTE website (it wont track each ‘portal’ on shoptoearn.net, it jsut tracks shoptoearn.net itself), they saw what shoptoearn.net was, and yanked the affiliate account.
Those who have signed up for this type of affiliate account know how it all works, most who sign up with STE wouldn’t be aware of how it works, or they’d know enough to build their own website and make their own shopping portal without having to fork over all this money to STE. This is how STE actually survives, they know most aren’t knowledgable enough about this part of the internet, business laws, etc. and in the current economy, people need money, and the STE sales pitch looks really good to those worried about how to pay the bills each month. This is especially true in south Florida, which is STE’s main target.
None of this is a new concept, it’s been done over and over again. People seem to compare STE to Mary Kay alot, or to Amway, and there is no comparison, Mary Kay, Amway, and several others did start the same way, and ended up in major court battles, paying millions in fines. Now, they are product companies, with real deals with manufacturers putting the Mary Kay, or other names on the products. Their main focus is the product, not the recruiting (they do pay a referral on new signups, but it’s considerably smaller, you make more from the products). They maintain over a 50% customer base on products, with customers not involved with the program. They give you a credit line to purchase the products, and you get that money back when you sell the products (in short, you’re a reseller of sorts). They also send a seperate payment for referrals and for sales commisions.
p.s. I too search the Times and many other publications, nonthing on Walmart and STE because there’s nothing to put in the papers about them. STE isn’t this giant company worthy of front page news in the financial section. of the thousands of STE people mentioned so often on these blogs, the majority are dorment accounts, or accounts that are registered and not activated because the people haven’t paid STE anything. I know two that are like that personally, because the people never signed up, the idiot who tried to get them signed up took it upon themselves to register STE accounts for them, and have received letters from lawyers about doing that. It’s illegal, they registered a company they aren’t a part of and had no permission to do so. I’ve talked to others who have had this happen to them as well. Things like this certainly do not help STE’s reputation at all.
I also sat at an STE presentation, asked ‘who else makes money from them signing up?’ (the presentation was to a non-profit), the answer given was ‘NO ONE, 100% of the profits goes to the non-profit’, in which I went on the laptop to the STE site and proved they were lying right there. A week later, the non-profit was one of the ‘referrals’ under this persons STE account, she registered them without their knowledge or permission hoping to get the money from signing them up, which she isn’t getting as the account isn’t activated.
This is the true STE ‘business model’, and an example of why all MLM’s get a bad rep, including the legit and honest ones (they are out there, but are overshadowed by the fly by nights and scams).
November 1st, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Just for the record, I have NEVER told a mistruth on this site. NEVER. I just don’t lie or even exaggerate about anything. These blogs would not be interesting to me if I could allow myself to just make stuff up, use hateful name-calling, and make crazy un-informed assumptions – like most of you do.
I just have never shopped at Wal Mart. That’s a fact. I guess some 3rd party friend did. I’m still not sure that was my web-site anyway. I can’t be bothered to go back and check. I have 3 web-sites and have made over $52,300 as of today- with 3 sites, approximately $22k, $23k and $7.5k. I do not care if you believe me or not . . . really. And I have never asked anyone reading these blogs to contact me about joining my STE group. That wouldn’t be ethical. They should join under the person who piqued their interest. Truthfully, these blogs give a lot of people some real conviction with STE. The one’s that shy away because of a non-sense blog would never make it with STE anyway!
Truth is, I’m a little disappointed that its only $52,000. I was hoping to be at $100 k after 5 months. The future does look great though. There were 4 meetings last week in NJ with 40+ people at all of them and I had absolutely nothing to do with them at all. I wasn’t even aware of 3 of them YET they are all in my downline and making me money. In fact I don’t even have to do anything anymore, I could actually BASH STE here on this site and it wouldn’t stop this runaway train. Pretty interesting.
Here’s the article, it was the Wall Street Journal about Wal-Mart and how its hurting financially.
The end of the Wal-Mart era.
This is an excerpt taken from a recent article in the Wall Street Journal.
Its influence on the economy is profound and lasting. But for the first time, the world’s biggest retailer is having a tough time providing what consumers want.
By The Wall Street Journal
The Wal-Mart era, the retailer’s time of overwhelming business and social influence in America, is drawing to a close.
Using a combination of low prices and relentless expansion, Wal-Mart Stores emerged from rural Arkansas in the 1970s to reshape the world’s largest economy. Its co-founder, Sam Walton, taught Americans to demand ever-lower prices and instructed businesses on running a lean company. His company helped boost America’s overall productivity, lowered the inflation rate and strengthened the buying power for millions of people.
Over time, it also accelerated the drive to manufacture products in Asia, drove countless small shops out of business and sped the decline of Main Street. Those changes are permanent.
Today, though, Wal-Mart’s influence over the retail universe is slipping. In fact, the industry’s titan is scrambling to keep up with swifter rivals that are redefining the business all around it. It can still disrupt prices, as it did last year by cutting some generic prescriptions in the United States to $4. But success is no longer guaranteed.
Convenience, selection and quality
Rival retailers lured Americans away from Wal-Mart’s low-price promise by offering greater convenience, more selection, higher quality or better service. Amid the country’s growing affluence, Wal-Mart has struggled to overhaul its down-market, politically incorrect image while other discounters pitched themselves as more upscale and more palatable alternatives.
The Internet has changed shoppers’ preferences and eroded the commanding influence Wal-Mart had over its suppliers. As a result, American shoppers are increasingly looking for qualities that Wal-Mart has trouble providing.
“For the first time in a long time, quality has a chance to gain on price,” says Lee Peterson, a vice president at WD Partners, an Ohio brand-consulting firm.
Now, the big-name brands that fueled Wal-Mart’s climb to the top are forging exclusive distribution deals with other retailers or working to reduce their reliance on its stores.
PepsiCo, which favored mass-market campaigns a decade ago, recently skipped Wal-Mart when launching a new energy drink in favor of Whole Foods Market. Consumer-products giant Procter & Gamble gets 15% of its revenue from Wal-Mart, down 3 percentage points from 2003. Wal-Mart’s effort to expand internationally has had mixed success in affluent markets. Last year it exited South Korea and Germany after failing to adapt to local tastes and achieve economies of scale. In Japan, the company’s low-price, high-volume approach has struggled in a country where low prices often equate to low quality.
T
November 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pm
I just re-read some of the blogs, again you guys have NO reading comprehension and just put words in people’s blogs…
I never said there was an article about STE, it was about Wal-Mart. You people are really not to swift.
November 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm
first Joe, that ‘article’ you just posted is about walmart having competition from smaller retailers and online shopping, that’s all. Walmart is still making more money than all the others, and opening new stores everywhere. To compete with online stores, they started their affiliate program which STE signed up for, and was dropped from, like many others who don’t follow an affilaites terms of service policy.
second, the walmart data I posted is from YOUR STE page.. http://shoptoearn.net/aptitle under what YOU purchased.
and since you jsut admitted you have 3 STE accounts (like many others who do the same), deduct even more from the ‘thousands’ of STE members.
I personally don’t believe any of the numbers you give. I’ve seen alot of people posting about how much their ‘check’ says on their account, then when it comes time to get the money, nothing cause it’s ‘flushed’ or some other lame reason STE gives. Even the person that tried signing up the non-profit without their permission had the $100 they were supposed to get for signing them up showing, but since the non-profit refused to pay and wanted no part of it, the money was never paid out.
November 1st, 2008 at 3:01 pm
i’ll also add that the non-profit, and another this person did the same to tried to get STE to remove their names from the STE site, STE refused saying it was ‘over the 30 days’, and didn’t give a damn that they had no clue they were being registered with STE… The lawyers are handling it from here.
November 1st, 2008 at 3:40 pm
itsme, ill leave on this note, you have some interesting points, many i agree with, a few i dont. as far as there may be some “bad apples” in STE, well that is probably 100% true. As far as everyone in STE doing to this non-profit the same as your one example, well, neither of us would be truthful if we stereotyped everyone involved as the same, especially form only 1 incident. Every organization has bad apples, the key is for the leaders to find these people and weed them out, and that goes for every company in every industry.
thx for the explanation on how these afilliates are setup, you certainly seem knowledgeable on the subject. you made a good point that i feel can also work against your argument. the fact is, most people, including myself had no clue you could do this yourself or how you would do this, hence the $448 can easily be construed as a service by STE to do this for you (yes, i know you can find it elsewhere) seems similiar to my accountant, i can certainly do my own taxes, take the time and study the IRS laws, or i can have my cpa do it for me and pay him a fee for taking care of the paperwork, which i choose to do.
that article has nothing to do with STE, just a write up on walmart,
joe o, if you have 3 sites, then i assume you could have made the money if you say so, i was under the impression you only had 1. makes more sense with 3
back to both of you, i do have 3 personal friends in this and they did show me their bank accounts, they did get their money to the penny, the “flush” that you are talking about is very well explained, if you dont get 2 referrals your points will be flushed, so i would imagine everyone is aware of this going in. and as far as the $100, ive been told and also shown that the $100 wouldnt show up until your referral pays, not just registers, i guess its a 2 step process, register, then pay. $100 only comes after paying, my friends showed me exactly how it works as he was signing up one of his referralls and i have to say it worked just like he said.
thx everyone for their thoughts, best of luck to all.
November 1st, 2008 at 7:15 pm
I know of many people donating the $448 web-sites to their local churches and fund-raising campaigns. It costs the non-profit nothing and they get cash. If the members of the community can shop on the non-profit site, they will make some nice “found” money. Especially during these tough times where reaching in your pocket or writing a check is difficult to do. If people shop at Staples for their office supplies anyway why not shop at their favorite charity’s site? This is a great idea to raise money. Whether its STE or any cash-back program actually.
To Mr. Unbiased:
Sorry to see you go, you were a breath of fresh air! Factual and logical. I am done here as well. If these people just assume I am lying, which I have never done in these blogs, then I can only assume they are surely lying and/or just choose to not really understand the STE facts. Either way, its a waste of my time.
I think we all know that Shop to Earn is not illegal. This is 2008 and there have been many MLM’s over the last 30 years that thrive and some that fail. The rules as to what the FTC is looking for is more evident now then ever. So just follow the rules and you’re ok. These bloggers that are looking from the outside have no idea what they are talking about. All this silliness about semantics that a web-portal is not a product – is all ridiculous. Bloggers do not decide what is allowed.
These STE guys are very bright, they have done their due dilligence and I’m pretty certain that its very secure. But of course their are no guarantees in life. Will they last? Just do the math, in the last 7 months they have have sold 65,000 web-portals x $448 = $29,000,000. They said they have paid out over $5million in commissions last month. So I would guess they are pretty darn financially secure. Soon they will hvae 250,000 web-site owners (over $100million) , so I’m pretty sure my commission checks will keep coming. They will also make many more millions selling products on their Earth side, which is their on-line eco-firendly store. This is just getting started for them since you have 2 months before you are required to even consider shopping there.
When they have 250,000 people late next year, they will have 100’s of millions in sales with the typical 40-50% margin that any retailer enjoys. Brilliant business idea, I wish I had thought of it!
Its important to know that people who buy an STE web-site are either thrilled, happy, or at the worst indifferent. They all got exactly what they paid for. The portal works fine and you can get cash back. You can get $100 when you refer someone. The 20-25% of the people like me ARE making nice money if they work hard. So what would the complaint really be?
Where are the victims? People buy things every day and never use them.
I think what really pisses these bloggers off is that they KNOW I will be making $75,000 a month by next Holiday season and I will have made many other millionaires along the way.
STE is all about winners.
Have a nice life!!
November 1st, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Joe “0″,
You are swift that’s why you do this and title work. YOU worded your statement about the NY Times as this: “Read the news once in a while. STE was slamming them for six-figures a month in cash back due to the 60,000 members, so they bailed out. They reported this in the NY times last week.” You stated that WalMart bailed out because 60,000 members were slamming them….They reported this in the NY times last week. What the heck are you trying to backtrack on? I think we understood exactly what you said.
I can tell you this:
1. You haven’t posted under numerous names that Paul called you out on??? It was someone else at your work on the same IP Address????? MMMMMMMMMMMMMKAY!!!!!!
2. Your numbers aren’t inflated???? I can tell you by having looked at your one website that definitely is not the site that’s at $22,000, not even close. You only made $130 cashback from SHOPPING on that site. How could you have made even 7.5k when you’ve only earned $130 from the shopping end??????? Also, your right leg and left leg are just a little uneven at about 90% in Right and 10% in the Left. If it’s so great why do you have to have three sites????? Let’s take a look at your other sites and check those numbers. Let us know what they are so we can confirm your postings.
3. Everybody is not swift because they didn’t read your statement about the NY Times. MMMMKAY!!!!!!!!
4. The title business isn’t the sleasiest part of real estate. HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
5. How’s Bart doing at this STE thing???
6. How come you and Daniel have the same phone number listed on your websites??? Maybe another false signup.
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SELF ACCEPTANCE. You have an explanation for all your BS and NEVER take any personal acceptance for your BS. You even try to spread your BS on every possible website you can find, posting under different names.
November 1st, 2008 at 10:32 pm
A website that you can make money from referrals shopping through your website and setup is UPromise. People can sign up under you and even when they use credit cards at local businesses it will be credited towards your UPromise account. There is no charge for that.
I didn’t mean to say your comment was absurd. Or at least I didn’t mean to sound so strong towards you. For that, I apologize. I do think that you can’t put an estimate on that because you have ALOT of people signing up for multiple sites. You have multiple spouses that sign up with each other. Then you have cases where spouses want nothing to do with this crap. For these reasons and others I don’t think you can put a percentage on the #2 you had posted. Again, sorry if I sounded rude towards you.
November 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 am
Unbiased, notice you said ‘if you don’t get 2 signups, your points are flushed’.. that’s promoting signups over products right there.
the point on how affiliate programs work and msot, including yourself not knowing how they work and how easy it is to do yourself for free is compeltely true, and why programs like STE aim at taking advantage of this fact.
I’ve been designing websites for nearly 20 years, since websites were black and white text accessable through compuserve or people link.. anyone who’s a web designer or internet IT can ytell you how badly common internet users are taken advanggtage of because they jsut don’t know how it all works (and never had a reasont to learn about it), it doesn’t make people stupid for not knowing, but it leaves them open for exploitation.
Many will say ‘you can be exploited with anything if you don’t know how it actually works’, which is also true, but the internet is still basically a baby, one that is growing faster and changing faster than anything in history. the techonology advances almost daily, and it’s ahrd for even the pro’s to keep up with at times, this makes it even easier for people to use it to exploit others. STE is no exception to this exploitation as I described. They are very aware of the general populations lack of knowledge about affiliate programs, websites, website hosting, etc.. and use it to make themselves money.
You’ll never find a true web deisgner or IT tech signing up for things liek this for these very reasons, in fact, we’re the ones who try to educate others to be aware of it all and not fall for it, to look into it very carefully, and ask questions about it, ask those who do design websites and setup internet networking.
The other problem with it is, because the itnernet is eve changing, and quickly, and information gets around that much faster, it makes alot of schemes and scams go by alot faster too. as soon as they take their scheme down for whatever reason, they already have a new one operating. Technology is wonderful, if used properly, unfortunatly, it, as with anything, has it’s setbacks and vulnerabilities, and those msotly effected are those who didn’t grow up with as much of it, it’s harder for them to understand it, and they become the most vulnerable (example: senior citizens targetted in msot credit card scams through ATM’s, online, etc..)
You and I actually seem to agree on more than we disagree on, what we disagree on seems to be jsut thigns seen from differant viewpoints. Now someone like Joe here, is an example of people to be weary of with these schemes, as he’s going around, changing his own stories, contradicting himself like crazy. These are the type of people that help turn true MLM’s into scams as well.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Just wanted to give everyone an update. I spoke to my buddy last night who joined STE about 2 months ago, and asked how he was doing with it, his reply was:
I got several people in and made $1400.00 but none of my people are doing anything, sucks cause now I’m not making any money “I asked why he was not making any money” his response: you make ALL your money from recruiting, 200 points for everyone that your people get and you also get $100.00 if you personally get someone new. I ask “how much shopping has your team done” his response: NONE??? I aske “are you shopping from your site” his response: NO???? Justy thought some of you would get a kick out of this.
November 6th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Of course Joe zero leaves here because he doesn’t want to answer the tough questions, like why would he need THREE separate accounts.
He’s now spewing his BS on the official shop to earn blog. Talk about a one way blog. I guarantee they won’t allow posts from people questioning the unethical company. They also have a “HUGE” cult meeting upcoming in Miami and it will only cost members $300 to attend. I guess that’s to cover their costs. I feel so bad for the people who actually think that they’ll make money by shopping and not recruiting. I’m sure they’ll make a ton from the holiday seasons. FREAKS!!!!!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
This is Matthew Whiteshield! First, I have NOTHING to do with the corporate function of STE. I joined STE this year as a broker and I established http://www.shoptoearn.org to aid myself and other STE members that I was working with. This site was intended to help the members in my group to coordinate our meetings. That is all! There is no connection with the STE corporate office through this site. In fact, I was told by STE that I could no longer use it due to copyright infringements. That is why I established http://www.ShopSaveEarn.net.
Now as for the comments by ITSME SAYS:
2. who is Matthew Whiteshield of Penbroke Pines, Florida that all but shoptoearn.net is registered to? FIRST OF ALL, IT’S PEMBROKE PINES. IF YOU BOTHERED TO ACTUALLY DO ANY RESEARCH (http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=shoptoearn.net&prog_id=godaddy) YOU WOULD FIND THAT THE DOMAIN NAME IS REGISTERED TO Registrant: Nox Foundation
3. Why would they need multiple websites? and why deid they try to use shoptoearn.org when they aren’t an organization? “THEY” DIDN’T, I DID! MORE RESEARCH!
6. Why would a company’ that claims to have started in early 2008, display ‘testamonials’ going back to 2006 and 2007?
the testimonials all state shoptoearn.net, which was registered in 2005 as a domain name, but they used shoptoearn.org throughout 2006 and 2007. ONCE AGAIN, RESEARCH!!! Domain Name: SHOPTOEARN.ORG Created on: 28-Apr-08 (https://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=shoptoearn.org&prog_id=godaddy)
7. why would a respectable company, want to use someone like Matthew Whiteshield, who’s email address is whitey@fdwhitey.com he owns fdwhitey.com), who has porn pictures, video’s, and stories about beastiality and rape on his site’s forums? (you can google links to all of it). This guy is supposed to be a firefighter and paramedic as well (glad I don’t live in his district). I AM A FIREFIGHTER/PARAMEDIC. I HAVE BEEN SERVING MY CITY FOR OVER 8 YEARS WITH NUMEROUS AWARDS. I HAVE NO FORUMS ON MY WEBSITE http://WWW.FDWHITEY.COM. HERE IS A LINK TO A GOOGLE SEARCH OF MY NAME (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22matthew+whiteshield%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8) IF YOU ARE THAT INTERESTED IN ME.
8. what is shopsaveearn.net all about? it’s been online since 2006, same ‘owners’, siular scheme to sop to earn. Even says ‘a group of shop to earn brokers’ on the site! What company holds ’seminars’ for investors? seriously.. what a joke. Again, it’s registered to Matthew Whiteshield.. this guy seems to ahve more stake in shop to earn than those who claim they ‘developed the program for ten years’. After seeingthe porn this guy houses on his own website, I’d believe the only thing he’s developed is a bad case of crotch itch.
ONCE AGAIN, RESEARCH!!! Domain Name: SHOPSAVEEARN.NET Created on: 03-Sep-08 (https://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=shopsaveearn.net&prog_id=godaddy). SECOND, I HAVE NO PORN OF ANY TYPE ON MY WEBSITE… UNLESS YOU CONSIDER THE PICTURES OF MY SONS WHEN THEY WERE BORN TO BE PORN!
Personnaly, I could care less what any of you think about STE. For some it has been very profitable. Myself, I made my money back but, not too much more than that. There arre others in my group who have done very well.
But, when you start to attack my character and my name, then I have issues. Please do better research before posting comments about people!
Thank you,
Matthew Whiteshield
November 8th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Hi Joe Zero here… except the Zeros are at the end of my checks from my site, my wife’s site and my partner’s site.
These STE web-portals are great! I have sold 22 directly and my group has sold almost 1,000 of them as of today. The people that buy their web-portal, or rent them or whatever you choose to think, are all very happy. Some people just get cash back when they shop and some also take the business opp side of it and refer more web-portals. Whatever makes you happy.
Anyway, I personally am already at $10k a month and at this rate will be at $75K a month by next Holiday season (probably more). I love when you say I am lying or exaggerating, because when I meet and greet people in NJ and I show them my back office, I gain great credibility. Keep it up!
Anway, have a nice day!
Joe O.
November 8th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Yeah I’m quite sure Bart is glad he bought into your crap. He’s done very well. Strange that you and Daniel have the same phone numbers listed on your website.
You’re a jo(k)e!
November 9th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Hey Paul,
Here’s part of the quotes from the administrators of the website (http://officialshoptoearn.blogspot.com/):
“I don’t want to use this blog to be on “the defensive” or even give any credit to those who feel the need to tear down our members in online forum. I will only say this:
The administrators of Fraud Files, Pink Truth, and our personal favorite “youalldisgustme.com” are not members of Shop To Earn, and have never attempted to contact us to gain the correct information on our business. We would welcome the opportunity to answer their questions in a professional forum.”
At least your their personal favorite! LOL
November 9th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
I…I don’t know what to say! This is such a surprise – I never expected this. Well, first I’d like to thank the academy…
Is anyone here actually a member of STE? If so, I’d like to get a list of the “deals” that they offer at different shops. Like, how much off you get at store X, and what kind of rebates at store Y, etc. Feel free to post here in the comments or send me an email. Anonymity is guaranteed if requested.
November 14th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I looked at the shop to earn website and saw they use the affilate programs from Google, Link Share and Click Commerace.
I did the same thing put together a lousy website and applied for the affilate programs. I still have walmart so if you want to shop at walmart go to my site http://www.allthebestshopping.com
All i had to do was register an email and find space to run it. $10.00 a yr
November 14th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Paul, don’t you have work to do at your very large company?
You obviously have a great deal of time in your hands.
You make me smile. Like this
Keep on working for the money and continue to be a slave to the clock. The world needs people like you to do all the hard work. You are not meant for the MLM world, so quit wasting your time and energy and go back to work. Just accept the fact that there are people out there that have escaped the rat race and stop trying to discourage people to try something new – it doesn’t make you look good. Thank you for being you, I am glad you exist.
-Diana Paez
November 14th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Shop to Earn is nothig more than a bubble about to explode.. First, they are not in the MLM business, they are in the pyramid business, which is different. MLM is legal, regulated and the product must be the core of the business. STE is not legal. It’s incorporated in the state of Nevada…I wonder why ??? it’s operating as a pyramis where the product is the “score”, getting people in. Additionally, charging 130 or 300 for training..give me a break… The fact that they are paying points on the training and the upline leaders make money on those traing fees is totally ilegal. STE should and will be shut down. It took Mr. Welsh “10 Years” to create this scam, it will take the Feds a lot less to close them.
November 17th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Diana,
You’re doing so good on your STE so far. Great job!!!!! NOT
You received $2.70 (2%) back on a $54 product at urbanoutfitters.com. You could’ve earned 3% for FREE through cashbaq.com. It’s people like you that keep chasing the cheese only to put yourself deeper in the hole. That’s an additional $448 and don’t forget the $100 monthly fee if you want to collect on your “score”. Do you know how long it will take you at that rate to get back your initial $448? FOREVER. Unless you scam, I mean recruit, additional “rats” into this crap. Keep up your hardwork, I’m sure your credit cards are maxed and your making minimum payments on those too.
In general, if one of my bosses told me that I should go to a training seminar, blah, blah, blah. Then they tried to tell me that I have to pay for the training ($300) plus hotel fees, I would be either not going to that training or looking for another job. You’ve got to be kidding me. Who pays for their own training? SUCKERS, that’s who!
November 18th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I got pitched last night.
What seemed like a normal meeting with a trusted friend, became an argument. She’s been drinking the STE KOOLAID and man did she get mad at me when I stated this was a clear cut fraud.
Thank you for this Blog Paul, I’ve had a great time reading the comments. They sound a lot like my friend sounded last night.
The part that bothers me the most is that you are taking money from people selling them a fake dream, and damn it you can’t do that, that’s what religion is for.
I’ve seen it over and over again, a meeting at a house, a very happy representative showing a bunch of people with an empty checking account, a $7,000.00 they made just in the last month.
If life has showed me anything is that there is no such thing as a free ride. People be careful with your money.
November 18th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
FIRST OF ALL, A MLM APPROACH TO BUSINESS IS NOT A PYRAMID SCHEME. IT IS A LEGITIMATE BUSINESS STRATEGY. ONE OF THE MOST WELL KNOWN IS PRIMERICA. A LEGITIMATE FINANCIAL COMPANY THAT SELLS INSURANCE AND INVESTMENTS. ALL OF WHICH IS LEGAL. OWNEC BY CITICORP. AS FOR SHOP TO EARN. AS LONG AS THEY PAY THE COMMISSIONS, IT IS LEGAL.
November 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHTS STEVE STOP TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED RUDE STOP UNLESS YOU ARE SENDING A TELEGRAM OF COURSE STOP I FEAR YOUR KEYBOARD MAY BE DAMAGED STOP GO TAKE ALL YOUR ILL-GOTTEN GAINS AND BUY A NEW ONE STOP
Seriously though, get a clue. STE != Primerica. Just saying it over and over that since Primerica is legal, that means STE must be is a logical fallacy. So really…..STOP.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Hey guys, relax. If the latest Direct Markting program has you so worked up, you should revisit your priorities. I am a business owner of two retail stores. Not a business pushover in fact quite the contraty. I have read many of these comments and I have to wonder what is going on here? First of all, everyone is looking for some STE broker to send in their pay stubs? Are you kidding? This site is claiming to list the cell phone of a well respected attorney? Come on! How could I take any of your claims seriously! This sounds more like a high school tit-for-tat, or some internet driven posse to bring down an organization because they offer a concept that you (without direct knowledge or experience) dont seem to agree with. Most of the negative info regarding STE on the site has also been clearly refuted on this site. Instead of asking the
STE earners to show their pay stubs, why not ask the STE haters to show evidence of their complaints? Someone even claimed that the corporate phone number is not listed on the STE website. Had to chuckle at this one. Have the same complaint with Amazon.com. Does that make them a scam because you cant call them either. Actually, you might ve able to reach them if your interested in selling on their sit4, building your ecommerce with them, advertise with them, self publish with them… yes all of these “solicitations” are right there at the bottom of their home page. Sounds like their recruiting to me. The only difference is that only (probably) 4 or 5 key players at amazon will get paid for it. STE decentralizes the profits to the people doing the work. Its actually very intriguing to me because it is acutally a self-incenting program. As a former IBMer, I am always interested in the way incentives are handed out since I think IBM did such a great job of it. And yes, besides Amway, Gerry Nehra represented IBM. He must have moved to the “life of crime” after that assignment. Here’s the deal guys. All of this is kind of irrelavent because the only advice anyone should be giving is “if you cant afford to take the risk, dont get involved”. I risked $50,000 when I opened my first store. $450 seems like a drop in the bucket relative to the “conceptual” upside potential here. I have not yet joined but probably will. Sorry to say, reading these blogs put me further toward joining. NO ONE HAS MADE ANY NEGATIVE CLAIM HERE THAT WASNT PROVEN TO BE FALSE, OR, NO ONE HAD GIVEN ANY REAL EVIDENCE OF THEIR CLAIM. I dont think it is the responsibility of STE to prove it’s legit to it’s opponents. It is the responsibility of the opposer to reveal through real evidence (not just bashing language) that an issue actually exists. STE offers a $4100 fast start bonus for signing 10 people in the first 30 days. Sorry, I actually know people who have done this and recieved their money. If the investment is about $450, then STE makes $4500 when 10 people get signed. Then they give back to the recruiter $4100? That anyone could call the $450 investment a scam when they offer this incentive isnt thinking clearly. Yes, not everyone will achieve this. Not everyone acheived their incentives at IBM. BUT THE OPPORTUNITY IS THERE! The only way you can bark about the investment is if people aren’t getting their money. And so far, no one has proved that to be true. And again, I do know people who have done this. Something like this can only work if the people involved understand that the network they build is the key. Thats not a pyrimid (even though its shaped like one, but then again so is a corporate organization chart), it’s a self motivating, self incenting way to build a business. I cant endorse this yet becasue I havent joined yet and I have no direct experience. Only what my research has allowed me to learn. I do believe that internet shopping and green products are two of the fastest growing industries today. Given that, I need to make a judgement call if these people can pull it off. It is a good concept. Again, if you cant afford to loose the money, dont join! Its like ANY OTHER BUSINESS DECISION. To me, the investment is trivial relative to the upside potential. but thats just my opinion. It’s critical, however, that all down lines (eventaully to me) see this as a team effort. The truth is, even if the site does fail some time in the future, getting in this early surely provides good odds of an excellent return on your investment. If the site doesnt fail, I’m in early and my next comment will be sent from Aruba!
November 19th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
STE has been a no brainer. I always have shopped online at Macy’s, Barnes & Noble, Expedia, etc. Nothing changes with the exception that we get a few dollars back. Same for American Express cards, Discover, etc. What is the real problem here? I’ve made my investment back nicely in 30 days. I received my monies with NO problems and everyone in the group received theirs with NO problems. I am amazed how many losers there are out there that constantly put down companies they know nothing about. Obviously, you all can not hold a job, so you place your anger and misguided info out to others. Don’t worry, there are many of us Americans out there who work our ass off so you numbnuts can sit at home and collect, amazing though, you losers state you have no money, yet you have a computer. Yup, keep drinking that koolaid. But… try something different, get a job and do well, you just might experience something new……..success. OR try calling Bill O’Reilly, maybe he will make you special and announce you the “Pinhead” of the day !!!!!
November 21st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
To numnuts Paul:
I am wide awake.
I just started.. I am a well known designer / animator and I’ve done pretty well in STE considering how busy I am with work.
And I’ve got no credit card debts, I’ve been raised with knowledge about handling credit cards.
And silly rabbit, STE ’s specialty is not compensating with shopping, the real money comes in through reffering . The part you’re so terrified about. You obviously don’t even know how it works yet. DO SOME RESEARCH.
Also, get a life.
You must be very unattractive, and your negativity is just making things worse for you.
November 21st, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Also,
you’re not paying for training. WOW, it amazes me how lost you are.
You’re paying for the WEBSITE and BUSINESS. They’re called INVESTMENTS, not paying for training. INVESTMENT. Put that word in your vocabulary, it’s a freebie from me to you
For example, there are some people that have to INVEST 150,000 or more to open up a restaurant. They’re going to have to “RECRUIT” aka HIRE people into their business. And while they’re doing that they probably eat in their own restaurant, to save some money. So einstein, do you think this guy invested 150k to save money on eating?
You’re going to tell me that 448 is a lot to put into a business? You’re nothing but an employee if that’s the way you think. Sorry to tell you, you’re going to be working for the money for a long, long, longgggg time.
I’m so done with this retarded blog. What a waste of time.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Anyone who knows how to do research in google or has been on the net for more than a year know this is just the latest in a string of schemes.
There can be no argument.
It is really sad that people are defending an entity that is hurting them and acting against their best interest.
Must be the same people who voted for a second term of bush. : (
Please people of the world, we need you to get educated so we can progress as a people.
Take of the blinders.
December 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pm
People:
Here’s why STE works so well, is very profitable, is in compliance and will last for decades: STE has a wonderful product, it’s a Web-portal that gives you cash-back at over 600 stores. The product works great and there are no complaints. I hear of other web-portals that are cheaper or even free – but that’s ok. Why do some people choose a Jaguar over a Toyota or even taking the bus for that matter? All 3 will get you to work on time.
This product, if you want to buy one, costs $448. And over 75,000 have been sold so far. Do THAT math (over $33million). STE has spent a few Million getting this system up and running and now it’s all profit.
If you can’t understand that this is 2008 and a cash-back web-portal IS A VALUABLE PRODUCT, then you just don’t get it. Move on.
In addition, their Shop to Earth business will soon be the largest eco-friendly store on the web. It will exceed $1 billion in sales in the next 5 years and with just a typical 50-60% profit margin, STE will be extremely profitable and able to pay the people who built it for them forever.
So people are simply buying web-portals and they can shop and get cash back, if they choose they can refer others and make it a business. Either way, people are getting what they paid for.
This is NOT difficult to understand.
Joe O.
P.S.
I have made more than $60k so far which includes $12,500 in November and I haven’t signed on anyone in months. Not bad for just my 6th month. Next November it will be well over $100,000 and there is basically nothing I can do to stop this.
December 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Just to add to the information, Pat Welsh has operated many other scams before. His personal income is greatly generated by his subsidiary companies that he
uses to “market” his launch companies. Some of his failed companies are The Big Jungle and Go Shop The Malls. You can find his networking organizations at
the Florida Government Corporate Search site:
http://ccfcorp.dos.state.fl.us/search.html
Officer/RA Name Entity Name Entity Number
WELSH, PATRICK THE BIG JUNGLE, LLC L01000018893
WELSH, PATRICK SAFARI SEMINARS, LLC L01000022504
WELSH, PATRICK JUNGLE MARKETING, LLC L01000022505
WELSH, PATRICK SHOP 2 EARN, INC P06000097372
WELSH, PATRICK THE VIDEO DOCTOR, INC. S45376
WELSH, PATRICK SAFARI SEMINARS, LLC L01000022504
WELSH, PATRICK JUNGLE MARKETING, LLC L01000022505
Another good research site about MLM is: http://www.quatloos.com/mlm/mlm.htm
December 4th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Whoever posted using my sign-in. Don’t be a little punk b$tch with courage at your fingertips hiding in cyberspace. Post your own little sign in and quit trying to claiming your great company is. You PAID to go to a training, PERIOD. You PAID to stay in a hotel. My company would pay for the training, the hotel, and my per diem. That’s an investment. They’re sending me to training in hopes of better educating me to assist them in becoming more successful with me and through me. You’re explanation is borderline STUPIDITY.
Suzanne, Deb, and Diana:
Money can be made from this. IT’S MADE THROUGH RECRUITING. Anyone who has made significant money from this company is making 90% of their money from recruiting and only 10% from shopping through their PORTHOLE!!!!!!! That’s why I say WAKE UP. It’s about recruiting. Like a said a long time ago. Do some research on the wonderful leader and you’ll truly start to see that there’s question marks. MLM Fraud has only scratched the surface, but that was still interesting.
December 8th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Hey MLM Fraud, are you out of your mind? how and why can you type that Pat Welsh has been in other Scams? that is just an out and out lie! you have no proof and yet you feel compelled to bash a guy you don’t even know. I have a dozen or so LLC’s that I am involved with too. Why does that make any of them scams? Lot’s of succesful entrepreneurs have multuiple LLCs and partnerships and subsidiaries…what does that prove? all it proves is that he is succesful and has some joint ventures with other business owners. Get a life!!
BTW, if you want to go to McDonalds University to learn how to run your franchise that you just paid for…YOU PAY FOR TRAINING AND FOR YOUR OWN FLIGHT!
December 15th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Problem History:
12/15/2008 10:33:00 AM / CUS
I want to know if I can received a complete refund or part of it from canceled my account, I tried several times to find somebody to join my business and I find none. Let me know how you can help me. Thanks.
This is the respond of ShoptoEarn customer service:
12/15/2008 10:38:58 AM / JCJ
Raphael- Per the Terms & Policies agreed to upon enrollment in ShopToEarn, there is a 14-day cancellation/refund policy. “I am entitled to cancel this Agreement at any time and for any reason with written notice to the Company. The Company agrees to refund in full from a resigning or terminating Business Builder(Independent Contractor) the Business Builder website purchased by the Business Builder(Independent Contractor) from the Company within 14 days, which is also known as the 14 day Right to Cancel.” You enrolled and agreed to these terms on 10/19/08 thus creating an opt-out deadline of 11/2/08. Since you are past the 14-day deadline, and we have posted the $100 Training/Referral bonus and 200 points up-line, we are unable to refund your account at this time. Please inform us if you still wish to have your website turned off.
This kind of business is good for some people, but for me was a waste of money, be very careful or you can lose your money in the same way I did. From this point I don’t recommend this business to anyone. By the way I’m a real affiliate, my ID is REMACH and I have have 3 months in the company. I’m going to copy this info in all the blog I find about this company.
Thanks, STE Support.
December 15th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
j, You’re going to try and come on here to compare scam to earn to McDonald’s? You’ve got serious issues. McDonald’s offers a product (albeit crappy food). This scam offers crap too. That’s the only comparison. By the way, doesn’t scam to earn have it’s own blog where they edit EVERYTHING and won’t let anything against there sight be placed on it???
If my office offered me to go to a training and I had to pay for room, flight, TRAINING, I would definitely be looking for another job.
The only thing being put out there about different corporations is that it’s a red flag. There are plenty of people who have multiple corporations. On the other hand, there are a lot more that have multiple corporations in order to hide money, close a business and swindle money from people. It’s a red flag. I believe that’s what the author was saying about the different corporations.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
I just want to say that most of us work our ass off for companies that pay shit. Every company in America resembles a pyramid (ever look at an organization chart at a company?). The problem is that we’re brainwashed to accept this instead of demanding better for ourselves. We’re expected to work our asses off, promote ourselves, do what others say… in hopes that we MIGHT get a raise or promotion.
The cost of running your own business is a lot more than $448. Upon signing up, in order to receive commission, you have to recruit two more people…. earning back $100 per person, lowering your cost to $248 immediately. Purchasing a website, paying maintenance costs, and marketing your own business can costs thousands within a year.
These plans aren’t built for everyone. You have to sell the business and sell yourself, but there is money to be made. And no one’s life is going to be ruined over $450!! You would literally have to shell out this money and do NOTHING in order to not get back your return. For the price and the effort, STE is worth a try. There is nothing wrong with taking risks.
You people take it too seriously.
December 21st, 2008 at 12:41 am
You are an idiot, Shop to Earn is great, I and everyone involved are making a great living and you are some kind of sour grape. Perhaps it’s because you did something against their no tolerence policy which protects us all from the likes of you. You don’t deserve to be involved in the best mlm of the 21st centuary, and I am sure glad you are not in my tree………..
EAT YOUR HEART OUT ……………………Loser
December 28th, 2008 at 2:47 am
I couldn’t agree more with the analysis on your blog and clarifying that Shop to Earn is a worthless fraud, or as my friends and I who have seen a few people sucked into the scam call Shop to Earn: Enron for high school dropouts.
You have more patience that I do to read the comments of those who have swigged the STE koolaid — their utter lack of critical thinking and common sense is both baffling and dangerous. Somehow, this disinterest in truth that is required to waste one’s time and squander one’s principles for the sake of a pyramid scheme like Shop To Earn seems reminiscent of how we ended up with eight years under he Bush regime.
December 30th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
I joined STE (and signed my children up also) in August. I was told to hurry and sign up even though I did not have our corp EIN# with me that night — that I could easily change it later with no prolem. This corp is set up for our family’s investments and these web sites should go through this corporation. I have been trying to change the SS# to the EIN# since Sept. Recently STE set up an option to change website owners. There is a $99 charge to change owners. I was told that I had to use this option to change the SS#’s. This will cost us almost $400 for something that I was told I could easily do later. Lately they have been changing the rules frequently so that what you originally signed up for might not be the same today. I do not consider this fair or good business. It cetainly has made me rethink my opinion of the company and management. I also question the fact that you can only communicate through”support tickets” — no phone contact. We are also scolded every month for filling out too many support tickets. What’s that all about???
January 1st, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Unfortunately a lot, not all, will lie, cheat, etc. to get people to sign up under them. “Sure, you can switch this. You gotta sign up though so that you don’t get in on the bottom tier.” Whenever your being pressured to sign up for something that should be a big red flag. When you have to recruit other people to recoup your money that should be another red flag. If you tried to make your money back by simply shopping you would have to spend about $9,000. Most brokers that are continuing to make a lot of money have more than one account so that they can recruit more people and reach the 30 day bonuses. If it’s about shopping and not recruiting then why are people opening multiple accounts?
January 1st, 2009 at 6:55 pm
By the way, that Official Shop to Earn Blog is really a wealth of information. NOT!! So many posts from brokers too. NOT!!!!!!!
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
Shop to Earn is not a scam by any means. It’s a great system that can be fun and fulfilling.
It is not very hard to get your original $448 back in your first year, and even easier to get it back over a 2 year period with the $119 renewal fee. Shop, refer a 3-4 people by mentioning that you get cash-back at stores you shop at anyway and you are just fine. 98% of the people that join are either satisfied or thrilled. The 2% of the others appear here in negative blogs. Why? because they can’t make things work and need to blame others. Is there anything more obvious that that in this blog site?
I have made over $80,000 so far. I made $14,500 in November and over $20,000 in December. How? by showing this business opportunity to some 27 intelligent people in the last 7 months. Now I have over 1,400 in my business. I will make residuals on their shopping forever. I will be making six-figures a month by this time next year. It’s not easy, but what in this world is?
The people that will retire early with Shop to Earn are the same 10-15% of the population that are highly successful at whatever they decide to do in life. This is me…sorry if it isn’t you. HINT: having an open mind, focusing on what works, being upbeat and positivehelps!
The bottom 10-15% will always be there to bitch and complain and nit-pick.
This is 2009 . . . high-speed web access is now everywhere, going green is everywhere, network marketing is a proven system if you have a great product ( which in this case is a cash-back shopping portal). If you can’t see the writing on the wall then I’m sorry for you.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
j, besides being full of &&&& why wouldn’t you refer your friends to FREE websites that do the same thing (Cashbaq, LiveSearch, etc.). You don’t have to answer that it’s because your greediness wouldn’t be involved. You won’t make money and save your friends money if they go to those other websites.
How much have you made from your shopping, j??? Then tell me how much you made from scamming, I mean recruiting??? I’m sure you’re in the real estate, mortgage, Title, or other MLM lines of business and need the extra money now. I know 10 people in this and only 3 have made money and it’s mostly (90%) from recruiting not shopping. The other trick is to open multiple accounts so that you can continue to make your 30 day bonuses. Of those three people only two are still doing it consistantly. The other made her money and has bailed out because, “I made my money back.” What about the poor saps that you had signed up, that you told this is so great. They have to earn their money by recruiting just like I did.
That’s typical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go away j, I’m sure you’re the one and only from New Jersey that posts BS on every website. Go to your wonderful scamtoearn blog that’s been a wealth of information. HAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Don’t forget as you scam people for $448, a $100 a month fee to buy crap, and an annual fee that you could’ve been a real friend and referred them to the FREE shopping portals.
January 8th, 2009 at 9:26 am
I have been a professional network marketer for over 20 years and have made BIG money and built large downlines in 8 MLM companies. I was in the top 1% of these companies so I know a bit about network marketing. STE is the one company I wouldn’t touch with 10 foot pole. This just one large recruiting scam that is based on signing up new recruits with the hope they will continue to sign up new recruits. The emphasis is clearly on recruiting and not shopping. And yes, there will be the lucky few like Brenda and Rich who got in early and now they are making six figures a month. Good for them and they deserve everything they are making because they took a chance with a new startup company. But for most folks who get invloved in this scam, unless they are placed on a good “power leg” and have spillover from their upline, they are not going to make any money. If you are placed on the inside leg of a person who is also on an inside leg, you will become “roadkill” and be left out to die. But forget about the binary right now. STE will be shut down by the Attorny General of Florida and if you research this online, you will find that STE is being compared to YTB as a MAJOR Pyramid scheme that consumers are being warned to stay away from. YTB is currently being sued by the Attorny General of CA becuase their emphasis was also on recruiting. Run, don’t walk from STE.
January 9th, 2009 at 2:14 am
Shop to Earn is nothing but a common Ponzi/Pyramid scheme that has been reinvented over and over for many many years. Anyone ever heard of Bigsmart.com – It was the exact same thing as STE. Just type in bigsmart into your google search and do some research. Anytime you make the majority of your commissions by bringing in recruits and not actually selling the product – It’s a PONZI SCHEME!! The sad thing is….the majority of the people paticipating in this scheme think it is a legit business…they have made their money back and are making money…their friends are making money…how can this not be legitimate? What happens when the suckers run out? I guarantee you that the folks at the top of this thing have perputuated other PONZI schemes similar to this one…just take the time to do the research…like someone said..it’s 2009..high speed web access is now everywhere—use it…Anyone ever heard of Bernie Madoff? He did the same thing on a much larger scale…used the word of mouth of his initial investors to bring other investors in…well we all know what happened..eventually the economy crashed and there was no new money coming into the scheme and BOOM – The End!
January 9th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I attended the presentation. It made sense ( at the time. ) So…if this is really the next best thing since sliced bread, & the goal is to sign up as MANY PEOPLE as possible, why not spend a few bucks & run an ad on TV & radio? If this is such an incredible opportunity, there should be people lined up in the streets for MILES begging to sign up! Heck…you could stay open 24 hrs. a day signing people up. You could regain ALL your money & then some in 1 day!! If it sounds too good to be true..It IS! Good luck.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:09 am
i just signed on w/ ste. Man do i feel stupid. No contact info other than an address… no direct contact to pat welsh by phone… i paid $448 for wat? Idk… well atleast i figured it out 2 b a scam b4 signing on my friends & family. My best friend of 25yrs signed me up… hmmm… well i cant blame him 4 suckerin me n2 this cuz he got screwed 2…
January 15th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
i read through a whole lot of these posts and many others on STE and both sides seem to have people argueing strongly for valid reasons. when i read someone pro STE I’m totally all for it and think I’ll sign up right away but then I read someone else completely against it and they also make sense. I’m in the process of deciding whether or not to sign up and I’m really stuck… these posts are just confusing me more.. it seems like there is no real answer- maybe its just how you view it and how you work with it?
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:49 am
My goodness, what is wrong with people. First, to compare this to a ponzi scheme is totally ridiculous, the ponzi scheme didn’t pay you monthly commissions HELLO…we get paid every month and I could show you my direct deposits. All everyone here is doing is basically talking out of their u know what because if you haven’t joined and worked it, then you are simply NOT EDUCATED on the company. Oh and the other genius that talks about Signing people up, think about it for a second, what business is NOT propelled by more clientele? Whether it’s a lemonade stand or a multi-billion dollar corp. they need people to grow and make more money. The reason why we don’t advertise is because advertising is done by word of mouth, that’s how we keep overhead low and that to me is common sense but some people are not gifted with that, so we forgive you. Knowledge is power, educate yourself accordingly so you won’t sound like bumbling idiots.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:52 am
Oh and by the way, I have been in the company for 3 months and have earned $11,645.00.
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
To the suppliers……..is anyone seeing any traffic or sales coming from STE? The one thing I do not see on the site (referred by a friend) is how a supplier gets involved. Based on all of the comments above, we are re-thinking our involvement anyway.
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Hey Paul love your posts! Totally crack me up. Any news from the FTC on investigations into this scam?? Have they(FTC) even raised an eyebrow yet about STE?? My friend just hit me up a couple of days ago and I immeditely said no way!
January 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Kaye,
How much of your money has been made from Shopping? How much has been made from RECRUITING? I’m going to guess that, if your numbers are correct, approximately $10,000 came from recruiting. Anybody who has made any real money has to get there 10 people in 30 days.
I guarantee that not all of your recruits have hit their marks. You may have earned that money but don’t forget the money you’ve spent on monthly fees, initial fees, etc.
If this was truly about shopping then why not refer your friends and family to FREE websites that offer the same thing as scamtoearn (LiveSearch Cashback, Cashbaq, etc.) These sites will give you cash back for shopping for FREE.
I bought a 2nd generation 16GB IPOD Touch off of EBAY through the Live Search Cashback site for $299. 60 days later I just had $73 deposited into my Paypal account for free. That’s about 25% and will be more than happy to provide copies to this site if questioned. It was a free sign up and I challenge anybody to beat that overall price for a 2nd gen IPOD TOUCH 16gb. That’s what’s great, watching people save money during these tough times. Not spending more to start something that they need to continue recruiting. 90% WILL NOT MAKE THEIR MONEY BACK!!!!!!!!
January 25th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
I would suggest that anybody that is thinking about doing this think very carefully. Do you realize that the legal coucel that they have retained is Gerry Nehra? He was the Director of the Amway Corporation Legal Division for 9 years. Amway of corse has changed names many times in an effort to gain new sales. My wife got involved when they called themselves Team of Destiny. They made sure to tell everybody that they where not Amway but sold Amway products. You can very easily track them back to Amway. Seemed a little shady to me and I made my wife get the money back. The friends and family that did join Team Of Destiny are still in the same financial state they started at. I hope everybody understands that you have 3 years to make your money at this and then it will most likely come crashing down. If they are like Amway they will change the name and be something else after that. My wife has been asked to join this STE scam and that is why I am looking into it. I do think you can make money at this but it will be at the exspense of your friends and family. I don’t have the stomach to do this to people I know. They are trying to get as many people in the game as fast as possible to make the most money they can in the shortest amount of time. That’s the game folks, no smoke and mirrors. They have people pray on their friends and family and if you won’t do that they still have the money. Even if you want your money back and you opt out they have no time invested, they had other people try to sell it. Even if you spend a dollar they are ahead. If I could get 200,000 people to send me 1 dollar I would have $200,000.00. How do I get people to send me this money? I have to promise them that they will get rich doing it. What if they don’t believe me? I tell them that they would have bought the products anyway, that’s what Amway told everybody. So I only got 10% of them to buy into it? That is still $20,000.00 I just made by telling people they would have bought the products anyway. This whole thing is a very good sales pitch. This is no different than the guys selling books on how to get rich with their program. They know that some people will return the books in the time they allow but they also know that some won’t. After all it only cost me $20.00 while the guy selling the book keeps adding up the money and laughing all the way to the bank. Gerry Nehra knows the game very well and it is no coinsidence that they have retained him. This guy knows the ins and outs of the Amway program. All I will say is good luck.
January 25th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Kay, I challenge you to reveal your URL. You would be in the top 99.59% bracket of percentage earnings, if you have earned $11, 645.00 in the past three months. It is so easy for people to come here and just typed in anything to prove their point. So we are waiting for your URL. I will officially state an official apology right here, if you share with us your URL and prove to us that you have earned that much money in three months.
January 27th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Funny stuff, really . . .At first I was shocked about all the anger and negative speak about STE on this site, until some people informed me that most of this non-sense and mis-informed bashing is from PROFESSIONAL NETWORK MARKETERS THAT ARE RUNNING SCARED THAT THEY WILL LOSE THEIR DOWNLINE TO SHOP TO EARN. Why would anyone in their right mind care if the FTC is concerned about a certain MLM biz UNLESS you saw it as a direct threat? If you don’t like MLM’s then just stay away. Why waste your time blogging if you’re NOT interested? surely there are better things you can do to prevent educated adults from spending their $448. People should be able to make their own decisions and spend their money as they see fit. Go help people that really need help and advice – go work at a soup kitchen with your spare time and leave these internet shopping people alone.
STE sells cash-back web-portals. It’s not about recruiting at all. Here’s just 1 of a million analogies: If I refer my friend to my fitness center I save 3 months in dues. Am I “recruiting” or am I just trying to help someone get in shape? If I refer 4 people a year I get my membership for free. They are all adults and make their own decisions. FYI, 95% of people NEVER reach their fitness goals ( whether its losing weight or gaining muscle etc) so should they stop trying to better themselves? are fitness centers all scams? Is Weight Watchers a scam too? it never seems to work in the long run! Let’s face it, excercise and dieting almost ALWAYS works – if you stick with it! Most people give up and then bitch and complain.
If my friend joins for a year’s fitness package and hardly ever shows up, is that my fault if he doesn’t reach his goal of losing 25 pounds? should he blame me or the fitness center? I did my job of trying as best I can to have him improve his health, I even offered to pick him up 3-4 times a week and take him to the fitness center. He’s an adult. He decided to join and then he decided to quit. This is human nature. There’s people who make certain things work and some that do not. Doesn’t make him a bad person or a fool. He’s a great guy!
STE sells a virtual mall, you want to buy something on-line, you log onto your own PC and shop at your own portal. You get cash back every time you buy something. It’s not perfect, but it works just fine. People aren’t recruited, its not a job, its a product they are buying.
The negative stuff is OBVIOUSLY coming from a certain group of people that are threatened ( and should be ). There are millions of people making a few thousand a month (and some six-figures a month) in network marketing peddling a super juice or wonder skin cream and their downline is running out of enthusiasm. Most of these proprietary products are EXCELLENT products really, but its a tough business to thrive in. On-line web-portals are a lot easier to sell. Its that simple. When you consider just Macy’s, Sears, Target alone . . .STE sells EVERYTHING without having to sell ANYTHING.
I have made over $95,000 in less than 8 months. I made over $20k in December and will exceed that every month from now on. STE is adding 10,000 new e-commerce brokers every month. Something must be working right . . .
Please get a life . .
January 28th, 2009 at 10:47 am
I love how those who trade time for money all of their lives and generally die living their final years more broke then when they were working their butts off are simply so closed minded that they can’t grasp the concept of passive income. In this case through a network or relationship marketing program. By the way Shop to Earn is not a pyramid.
Let me explain why….. say your a shop to earn broker and someone in your down line is a go getter and builds a stronger business then you,then they will make more money then you. Thats not a pyramid because you are being paid based on your efforts!!! not when you started, etc. If you get in and don’t do anything guess what you make? $0.00
Let me ask the naysayers….. Whats the chance that at your 9-5 job that in your position you will do a great job and the company will pay you more then your boss or more then the CEO?
Corporate America is a pyramid!
By the way I’m a business owner and not a MLM guy, but after years of running a business I see a lot of potential here. Perhaps advice would be best obtained from those who have wealth and time to spend with their families, people like Donald Trump & Robert Kiyosaki. Here is a excerpt: “Robert Kiyosaki explains that building a network marketing business is a revolutionary way to achieve wealth. Maybe reading the book would help “Why We Want You To Be Rich – Donald Trump, Robert Kiyosaki
Why guess.. get the facts from people you know have done it! not those who want to spend time complaining about others success, and making people think they can’t do it. Those people are dream stealers! The fact is you can do it! But its not without effort. If you don’t like something it doesn’t make it wrong just go do your own thing!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Again….Please research BIGSMART…it was the same exact thing as STE…get paid big commissions to recruit new “business” owners and get paid minimal amounts on any shopping they may do…BIGSMART guys…yes…the folks that got into this thing early can and will make big money…but it’s the folks that get in late that get caught holding the short end of the stick…the thing is, you never know when the bubble is about to burst, and when it does, watch out because all hell will break loose! Good luck
January 29th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
My guess is that j is from morristown. How’s Bart doing with his STE j?????????? Post your BS numbers. Why would you care what nay sayers are saying? Go to your wonderful STE blog that’s got about 30 posts in nearly 4 months of existence. Keep spending money on monthly fees, out of town trainings, and scamming friends.
Where’s your numbers at kaye?
January 31st, 2009 at 6:42 pm
we are all kicking butt!
just passed $100k in earnings today! and you KNOW its true.
Over 90,000 web-portals sold!!
Difference between a Business Opportunity and a Pyramid Scheme
Q. What is the difference between a Business Opportunity and a Pyramid Scheme?
A. The Facts
Some people confuse the business opportunities of Amway, Herbal Life, Shaklee, Mary Kay, Avon and ShopToEarn with disreputable pyramid schemes. However, there are major differences, which have been officially recognized by the US Federal Trade Commission.
Multilevel or “network” marketing is a lawful and legitimate business method that uses a network of independent business owners to sell consumer products and services supplied by an established company. Business owners merchandise products to consumers, not in fixed retail stores, but through person-to-person relationships between business owner and customer. Business owners can also build and manage their own sales-force by recruiting, motivating, supplying and training others to sell those products and services. Compensation then includes a percentage of the sales of the business owner’s entire sales group as well as earnings from their own sales to retail customers.
Pyramid schemes are illegal scams in which participants invest a large amount of money in exchange for the promise of receiving profits by recruiting additional